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Being relatively new to this kind of discussion (faced it all alone), I wonder how many R are successful, how many fails, how can you see or spot where a R is headed.

The first R between me and my wife was obviously fake, even if we married 7 years after her betrayal, issues were swept under the carpet of trauma on my end and she never addressed her issues.

So I know how at least one fake R looks like.

Now she is trying to change, and this time is me the least interested party, I wonder if my detachment already makes this a fake R (I am not even truly trying to, I just mind my own life, don't hate her, appreciate that she is working on herself, but care very little, compared to what I feel I should).

What's your experience?

Hi BFTS - My experience is that there is an ongoing and....pretty inevitable deterioration of trust. Even if you want to trust - suspicion pops up at any likely opportunity and it really surprises me even after 10 years. And I recently found out....I was right not to trust him, he still has an EA going on long distance with the same person and exchanging gifts and endearments, shit like that....I've caught him in lies about it. But the next part that happen is the end of romantic love. You make still be fond of each others, or care, but....you're not in love any more. Love is a beast that needs feeding and cheating starves the beast. Even EAs starve the beast. So that's my ultimate end. For me, recon is a financial thing - it's about health and money - I have significant health issues and I don't have enough to live on my own, and no family or anyone else I can live with. So, right now I'm stuck. If I had the money, I'd move out. As I say, I care for him, I love him as a friend, but the romantic love is long gone and I think that's the major casuality of cheating....the end of trust and romantic love - you have to have some ideals or look up to someone to have some sense of romantic love. When you don't have that....well....what you have maybe, is a friend. At the end of life that may be good enough. I wish there were more, but frankly.....I wish there were more with somebody else, LOLOL. I wish I'd bailed years ago and that is why I am SUCH a big proponent of bailing when you're still reasonably young and healthy and could have prospects. DON'T STICK AROUND, RECON IS A TRAP. For most people, it's a trap.

I know you asked this question rather broadly, but I think it’s fair to say that you are in false R because your wife is still lying to you, won’t answer your questions completely, and has been cheating on you for the entirety of your relationship.

As I’ve said in one of your previous threads, your wife is love-bombing you, which is very typical behavior for cheaters who feel that they are losing control over their betrayed spouses. As soon as you let your guard down and she gets comfortable again, she will go back to her usual attitude of contempt and disrespect.

Being relatively new to this kind of discussion (faced it all alone), I wonder how many R are successful, how many fails, how can you see or spot where a R is headed.

I stopped trying to diagnose or armchair quarterback anyone’s M a while ago.

Because I warned one member about red flags, told him he should leave — he came back to tell me he was happily R’d and I was wrong. Another case, I really thought things were going great, and the A went underground, the WS was simply great at telling the BS what he wanted to hear.

So again, because my vantage point is so limited, I tend to tell folks to heal themselves and to keep their head on a swivel (at least early on).

My ‘real’ R is about ten years in and I am as happy as I have ever been in life.

R for me is simply M at this point.

The same tools we used to rebuild us, we still use every single day in our relationship (honesty, kindness, no games).

However, it was probably two years before I thought R was even possible, and then another year to fully re-invest and aim for vulnerability again.

The factors are many and varied for R.

Over the long haul, if a BS can only see their spouse as a WS, or piles up resentments, not much hope there.

And if the WS only provides lip service versus real changes, that offers problems if they fail to cope or turn away from the M again at the first sign of trouble.

I’ll never be happy the A happened, I’m very comfortable hating it — but I am happy the full reset allowed me to approach life from a more…selfish base. By truly going for what I want and need, I became a healthier partner (versus burying my feelings and hoping for the best in the old days).

I don’t know if any of my experience helps, but life is real and real good around my place.

I think I feel pretty much the same as you. I'm here. I appreciate the positive things about my H. If he left me, I wouldn't care about him. I wouldn't miss him.

I think BondJane nailed it. After the loss of trust, there's a loss of romantic love. I am not romantically in love with my H anymore. After 11+ years, I can pretty confidently say that I probably never will be again. He killed those feelings in me when he cheated. I don't think there's any getting them back.

I think we succeeded (so far, at least) because we both wanted R, because we both did our work.

I didn't commit to R until I saw myself living a good life whether I R'ed or D'ed.

I began with an attitude of 'I'm not going to let my W's fuckup ruin my life.'

I established/negotiated observable requirements for R, monitored compliance, and took steps to get back on track if we deviated (well, I took corrective steps when I deviated, because my W pretty much met requirements from the start).

*****

I think it was Claude Steiner, one of Eric Berne's followers, who came up with the idea that people live in scripts or counterscripts. A script is something we write for ourselves based on early experiences; a counterscript is the opposite. (Scripts People Live, Claude Steiner, available for free download if you look).

Berne's followers argue that many people try to cure themselves of dysfunctional script-driven behavior by doing the opposite, but that is likely to be as dysfunctional as following the script. Rather than doing the opposite, they assert that a person who wants to stop living their script should figure out what they want and go for that. For example, if you think you need _____ every day because of a screwed-up childhood decision, the cure is not to stop _____. Instead, the cure is to make mindful decisions each time you're faced with a decision to ______ not.

I certainly don't do that for every decision, but I do when I have to make a big decision. And deciding what to do with my life after being betrayed was the 2nd biggest choice I've ever had to make. So I started with realizing that I could live without my W and that I could not control the outcome.

*****

After being betrayed, I think the best attitude for a BS starts with me-me-me. Once you get that, you can fit your own wants in with other people's wants.

I think only those in the marriage can decide whether R is successful or not considering we are all so unique in our needs and desires from a marriage whether infidelity existed or not. A successful R or even marriage for one may look like a train wreck to another. For me, R was "successful" when I got to a place where I no longer questioned whether to stay or go. Also, when I can honestly say that if it were to end now, it wouldn’t be because of his cheating.

As for the need to "be in love" with your spouse for successful R, for me is nonsense. "In love" for me is not a sustainable emotion even before D DAy. The romance can ebb and flow and that’s normal for me. Simple nurturing love is the only constant I need.

After being betrayed, I think the best attitude for a BS starts with me-me-me. Once you get that, you can fit your own wants in with other people's wants.

That was probably the most important thing I acquired. Inner self, not selfishness but self centered, is healthy.

I know you asked this question rather broadly, but I think it’s fair to say that you are in false R because your wife is still lying to you, won’t answer your questions completely, and has been cheating on you for the entirety of your relationship.

I know it is true, I have to acknowledge she is trying (lately whenever we go she is openly declaring what she has done, is humiliating for her, she tells is painful but less painful to hear when I say it, so she fires her confession first). The lies are tricky, because she seems to truly have some emotional blockage of memories. She does tell untrue facts, but she corrects lately correct herself by saying "this is not how things went, why am I telling a different story?". Which is confusing but seems genuine (or she is an incredible actress, shocking if that's the case because I can always read her like an open book), she seems shocked by her own lying as it comes out automatically and she calls it out alone right after. Not yet sure if is a good sign or a deeper problem.

The couple therapist says she seems to have some genuine blockage, she went back to rebuild the timeline of her first betrayal in front of me, took a whole day but she found emails and messages to reconstruct it.

It seems she is putting some work, I can observe the behavior to see if it it will be consistent.
The fact that I do not care about R or not, I wonder if I can call it an R, because is unilateral from her, I have no attachment to it, so if I do not feel to participate I suppose is 'fake' as she is trying to recover her position in my life.

I think BondJane nailed it. After the loss of trust, there's a loss of romantic love. I am not romantically in love with my H anymore. After 11+ years, I can pretty confidently say that I probably never will be again. He killed those feelings in me when he cheated. I don't think there's any getting them back.

Jane, coco.
That is truly the thing I miss the most.
I never believed in love, I was always cynical thinking is a temporary dopamine hit that lasts 6-24 months then fades.
Then I experienced it, and it was not intoxicating, it was nourishing, pushes you to be better, to grow, it does not fade, it grows stronger, steady.

And it is one of the strongest feeling you can experience. No matter how strong, it is fragile if another person enters the picture it dies.
That's likely the biggest source of pain, because I knew that once lost it is gone.
I want to experience it again.

As for the need to "be in love" with your spouse for successful R, for me is nonsense. "In love" for me is not a sustainable emotion even before D DAy. The romance can ebb and flow and that’s normal for me. Simple nurturing love is the only constant I need.

I imagine that if the M is the goal then it is not necessary.
To me marriage always meant nothing, I personally saw it as an official confirmation of something that already existed, it was a formality. This did not change today, so to keep up the M is not my goal at all (we had it after her betrayal, to me is worthless because I was trying to resurrect something dead and I was in self denial).

Perhaps is a personal thing, I already said I did not believe in love. But it happened and it was more than sustainable, is way different from the usual "dopamine honeymoon" is as powerful and more clear in the same time, it does not fade, is consistent and growing.

Since I discovered I am capable of feeling that, that is what became the meaning of a relationship to me, is not something I want to deny in my life.

The romance can ebb and flow and that’s normal for me. Simple nurturing love is the only constant I need.

When I talk about romantic love, I'm not talking about that new relationship infatuation "in love" feeling. I'm talking about something I can't seem to put into words.

We had our ups and downs throughout our M. I was always able to keep my love for my H. I wanted to be with him, until he cheated. Now, I don't care about having him around. He just doesn't matter that much to me anymore.

When I talk about romantic love, I'm not talking about that new relationship infatuation "in love" feeling. I'm talking about something I can't seem to put into words.

We had our ups and downs throughout our M. I was always able to keep my love for my H. I wanted to be with him, until he cheated. Now, I don't care about having him around. He just doesn't matter that much to me anymore.

Exactly.
The infatuation often mistaken for "being in love" is a natural chemical high of endorphins (mainly dopamine) that is designed by nature to phase out most negatives in a fresh couple, paint everything about the other person in pink tones, hide flaws and promote generation of offspring (at least that's what nature designed it for).

A crush is not love, is just chemistry. You will feel that for cheating and affairs too, it's how our brain is designed. If you know what you are doing you can trigger it intentionally, is not even difficult.

Romantic love (which I did not believe existed, I was kind of cynical, turning all down to chemistry and biology in the past) is different, has clarity:

You can see the flaws of the other person, you accept them effortlessly, you show your own flaws, they get accepted. The relationship naturally promotes both partner's growth, is not an intentional effort, you feel the drive to improve it elevates.
Yes there are chemicals involved, but instead of "high - fading" cycle the same chemicals are renewed over and over, and it's a different cocktail, balancing the dopamine 'good feel' with other hormones that allow you to be present, not drugged.

Oversimplified not to write a wall of text: You can 'engineer' a dopamine crush on anyone (that's how seduction works), extreme examples are some psychopaths/sociopaths who perfect this into an art form to make friends / lovers dependent on them.

You cannot engineer "love" (overstatement, knowing the exact kind of chemicals is probably still possible, what I mean is 'not as easily' at least, and anyway it's extremely hard to maintain it over time, even if you can trigger it).