SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m looking for honest perspectives.

My husband and I are several years into reconciliation after my affair. We’ve tried a lot of things in hopes of helping him heal. One of those has been entering a consensually non-monogamous relationship. To be clear, this hasn’t been about casually sleeping with lots of people. We’ve only met a few couples but every time before we meet a couple I get very depressed and shut down and can’t stop crying.

The difficult part is that this wasn’t really my idea. My husband told me that if we didn’t do this together, he would pursue relationships with other people on his own. I chose to participate because I love him, I wanted to stay together, and he genuinely believes this helps quiet the intrusive thoughts from my betrayal.

The thing is…I have reservations. He knows I do. I’ve been honest that I’m uncomfortable at times and that I don’t know if this is something I truly want for myself. I’m participating, but I can’t honestly say it’s something I would have chosen independently.

After being resistant to therapy for a long time, my husband has recently started individual therapy, and I’m planning to begin therapy myself soon. We’re both still trying to find healthy ways to move forward, which is part of why I’m asking this question.

I’m not looking for people to attack my husband. I know my affair caused an incredible amount of pain, and I understand that he’s been trying to find ways to cope and heal.

What I’m genuinely trying to understand is this: Is it common or fair during reconciliation for a betrayed spouse to say, in essence, "If we don’t do this together, I’ll do it on my own"? Have any of you experienced something similar? Did it help your reconciliation, or did it complicate things?

I’m really looking for thoughtful experiences. I feel conflicted because I understand why he’s hurting, but I’m also trying to figure out where the line is between making sacrifices for reconciliation and agreeing to something despite significant personal reservations.

I think you might want to revisit and re-read some of the replies in your other thread here. I don't think this is a good solution. It's not going to fix anything, especially if you're not into it. You asked that no one "attacks" your husband so I'll refrain from my opinion on what he said to you, but I will say that I think his "solution" and ultimatum isn't coming from a place of healing at all. No, it's not what I'd consider common or normal.

[This message edited by Pogre at 7:51 PM, Tuesday, June 30th]

Pogre, thank you for your response. I am honestly confused. On my side finances have been a hurdle as far as me being able to seek therapy. I recently found something that may work though. After him being resistant he finally found a therapist and just started. I doubt he will mention this aspect of the relationship though. I am genuinely confused. I read in other infidelity support groups, and the prevailing thought there seems to be that a BP asking for something like this is perfectly normal. He certainly thinks he has the right to ask. He tells me I don’t have to participate if I don’t want but then he will pursue things on his own. I don’t see how that gets us any closer to reconciliation or healing.

He tells me I don’t have to participate if I don’t want but then he will pursue things on his own. I don’t see how that gets us any closer to reconciliation or healing.

Well what he basically did was get your permission to cheat since you do not feel ok with this arrangement. It is not right for him to ask for this not unless you are 100% on board. I wouldn't even call this an open marriage. It was forced.

I'm a madhatter and had a revenge affair. What I did was wrong and it felt wrong. I used it as a coping mechanism and it was a bad coping mechanism. Not healthy at all. Definitely not the way to heal a M.

My XWS and I did open the M up after I discovered False R with him and his xAP. My XWS had many A's throughout our M and I thought if we opened the M up I would feel numb to the pain of him cheating. Well I eventually did become numb and I also completely fell out love and wanted out of the M. Not only because of that but because all his A's had been dealbreakers and he was diagnosed NPD and I was emotionally abused. Hence our D.

I am genuinely confused. I read in other infidelity support groups, and the prevailing thought there seems to be that a BP asking for something like this is perfectly normal.

I'm betrayed spouse and have/had no desire to open up the marriage or have revenge affair. My wife, in her guilt, gave me "permission" to have a revenge affair and I found it absurd and insulting. Not to mention, how could someone possibly "balance the scales" by having a revenge affair when permission is given? Think about it. If I really wanted to get her back I'd have to lie, deceive, and sneak around for a couple of months then have her stumble upon it out of nowhere for her to feel the same shock and devastation I did.

I think it might be common for a BS to have a desire to balance the scales or have a revenge affair, but not follow through with it or propose an open marriage and tell their spouse "I'm doing it with or without you" if there's an objection. If I were to think to say something like that my thought would also be that the marriage is over.

What you did was absolutely wrong, but what he's doing now is also equally wrong as far as I'm concerned. In fact I think it kinda has an abusive feel to it and makes me wonder if there are any other issues with control or abuse that may have existed even before your affair.

If you think he's not going to tell his counselor what's going on then counseling will almost certainly just be a big fat waste of money and I wouldn't bother. Counseling is only effective if a person is completely truthful, open, and honest with their therapist.

[This message edited by Pogre at 10:12 PM, Tuesday, June 30th]

Just because you cheated doesn’t mean you can’t have boundaries.

For a marriage to be rebuilt you both need to be happy. I can understand that what you were seeking in the affair was probably not just more and different sex. Your husband projects that if he were going to cheat that’s what it would be for.

The fact you cry and don’t want to do it should dampen his desire to do this. I would not agree to do things I don’t want to do because long term this is not going to ensure the happiness of both people. He may not be able to accept that, which makes reconciliation impossible. But long term so does making someone choose between swinging or being in an open relationship.

Hopefully he can find a better way to deal with his pain in therapy. I do think it’s normal for a betrayed spouse to entertain these thoughts but overall acting on them is another matter altogether. It doesn’t fix anything, it only creates more chaos.

Your husband is absolutely wrong. There is no justification for infidelity. If he thinks fucking other women will help him heal (it won't), he has every right to divorce you.

This is NOT something you are obligated to do as a price for reconciliation. Being a WW does not negate your right to maintain agency.

I'll refrain from attacking him here on your thread. I can, however, promise you that if he comes here with the same topic... I've got a prize-winning 2x4 ready.

Just so I can understand what's happening here: you're dating as a couple, so you not only feel pressure to accept sexual activity between your husband and another person/couple, but you're engaging in sex you don't really want to avoid being left out?

How are the other couples reacting to this?

We are engaging in I guess what is described as soft swinging. No intercourse. We met with one couple multiple times. We have developed a friendship with them but there are no romantic feelings between anyone.

I eventually became comfortable with this couple but recently he has become upset that we aren’t more "active ". In other words he wants to meet more people, have more experiences. We recently began chatting with a couple online, they were a lot younger than us. I wasn’t really comfortable with them. We were supposed to meet them last night and I got really upset and had a bit of a breakdown and we ended up not going. When I express how I don’t really want to do this he tells me he’s not forcing me, he can go do something on his own. But he feels he deserves a "thrill" like I had during the affair. I don’t really think he is using as revenge sex, I think my affair broke him in a lot of ways and I think he legitimately thinks some of that can be fixed by sex and feeling wanted by another woman.

It hasn’t helped so far though. He has a lot of trauma in addition to what I’ve caused and hopefully therapy will help him process. The pain I have caused him is immeasurable and I am committed to working towards rebuilding our marriage, I just feel Ike at times I lost my humanity and my right to voice my feelings because of what I did. Sometimes his attitude is you hurt me so bad, you don’t get to hurt.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like love to me. It sounds pretty awful.

I, too have been immeasurably hurt, but I don't see how adding more hurt or denying my wife to have any feelings would solve anything or help me get over the trauma. I made a decision to stay, but that decision was to stay and work on rebuilding a healthy, respectful marriage. Strong arming my wife into doing something she doesn't want to do is no way to do that. Him saying you can do what you want while telling you he's going to sleep around either way isn't much of a choice. Do you feel like you have full agency in this situation?

I think you're wallowing in shame right now and it's clouding your judgement. Is this the marriage you really want? A spouse who's hell bent on getting a thrill at the expense of his wife's well being? I know you did something horrible, but his solution will only cause more pain. How many more nights like last night do you want? Do you really believe this will fix or solve anything?

I'm going go be blunt. This sounds like a very toxic and unhealthy situation. Are there children involved? I'm guessing not. I hope not. If there aren't I don't see anything positive coming from staying in this relationship unless the both of you get some serious counseling, honest counseling, and do a lot of work to get things straightened out.

If there are children involved that still isn't a good enough reason to stay. In fact it may be even more of a reason to end it.

Lastly, he can't be going to counseling and omitting big details if he expects to get anything from it. You get out what you put in. He needs to tell a counselor everything that's going on. His feelings and his solution for getting over this.

[This message edited by Pogre at 5:00 PM, Wednesday, July 1st]

I will say this,

Yes, your situation is uncommon, but not unheard of.
There have been plenty of people here in the past and other places where this kind of behavior was demanded by the BS in order to stay.
Most common is a one sided open relationship. Where there BS goes out and does whatever they want for either a pre determined amount of time, or indefinitely.
The only common aspect of this is that the BS just has no problem with divorce at that point.
I won’t bother getting into if any of that is right or wrong. It just is.

If you need validation outside yourself and your bond with your partner you are still into adultery even if is consensual.

You can give yourself any amount of excuse or "rationalization", you can even believe it if you lie yourself.

Just pick a mainstream mantra and repeat it until it’s wired, goebbles style.

Lies don’t need to make sense to "make sense "

Might be that what you feel, and while it’s okay you started the abuse with betrayal, your emotions are pretty clear this is as bad for you as it was for him.

Rule is simple boundaries, emotions of such intensity might be a sign your boundaries are disrespected.

Hold them or consider moving on.
If you can’t believe in the lie enough to accept it you will only suffer.

Human have not enough energy to fully invest in more than one partner. No matter how casual if it leaks it bleeds .

And you are bleeding

"I don’t see how that gets us any closer to reconciliation or healing."

You realize he needs healing first, right?
Not you, not "us".
If he thinks he needs to take revenge or something similar to heal,than let him.
That is what remorse actually looks like.

But don't do anything that you don't want to do. That would be crazy.

I'm gonna push back on that, Shino. Remorse doesn't mean you have to give up all your own boundaries and/or accept abuse (And as I would put infidelity into the "abuse" category, so too would I put "revenge cheating," which is what's happening here.) It only means you understand the pain you caused your BS, you accept responsibility for it, and you want to change yourself so that you never do anything like that again.

Reconciliation requires rebuilding a marriage that has been destroyed, often into something better and healthier than it was before. It's like, if the marriage was a house with a leaky roof, infidelity is setting fire to it and burning it to the ground. Now you don't have a leaky roof, but you don't have a house anymore either... Further infidelity from the BS is just doing more arson to the rubble; it doesn't actually rebuild the house.

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 10:30 PM, Wednesday, July 1st]

...I just feel Ike at times I lost my humanity and my right to voice my feelings because of what I did.

I believe that infidelity is self-destructive. Your BH is experiencing the collateral damage. I understand that you are willing to do whatever you can to help him to heal, repair the damage and build a better future.

You can help him to heal, but it's just help. The bulk of the work of healing is his responsibility. He has to do this in a healthy manner. There's simply no way around that. No amount of alcohol, drugs, or self-destructive behaviors are going to have a positive impact.

You are under no obligation to enable his self-destructive behavior. I would even go so far as to say that you are obligated to approach ALL of this in the healthiest way possible. That includes being as authentic as you possibly can be.

Speak your truth.

This is unhealthy. For you, for him, for the M. I 100% understand where he is coming from - it’s from a place of hurt and pain. But two wrongs never make a right. I THOUGHT about so much revenge sex. But i realized it would not solve anything. It only would make things worse. And I would be violating my own beliefs and moral code.

If this is not okay with you, then maybe R is not in the cards. maybe he cannot heal in a healthy way that will help your R and your M.
ANYONE - the BS or the WS- can choose to leave the M if it is no longer healthy for them.

You can be remorseful and regretful and wish you had never cheated. But it may have damaged your M to the point of no return. And you DO NOT have to stay if it is toxic. I gave my WS all kinds of shit and very close to verbal abuse on a couple of occasions. But at some point you both have to decide you want to R and decide what that means. You CANNOT make up for what you did. And he cannot revenge sex his way to "equal".

Decide what is okay for you and then move forward. You hurt him, it’s true. But he does not get to be abusive back to you.

Ashamed,

Does your BH know everything about Your affair/affairs?

Did Your BH confront the OM or did he get away without justice being served

All affairs are not equal in their emotional impact on a man, although men often will deny the emotional impact.

Everyones right. You definitely shouldnt do this.

I know how this guy feels without ever hearing his words. His partner made him an unknowing sexual benchwarmer. His worldview of monogamy and morality is shot. He stifled his urges to honor her and she did not.

Now, hes trying to construct a new reality that makes room for him to not be fucked over and expected to fuck himself over by just swallowing it if he wants to stay. What hes trying to do is not going to work anyways, but thats besides the point. Hes trying to make room for himself in a world of broader sexuality and desire that excluded him.

The collective wisdom is that since she doesnt want to, him pushing the issue is abuse. Her conceding her boundaries, is self abuse. Thats totally true.

Where is there room for this man to not be a miserable cuck who just takes it? Noone has any ideas to remunerate him spiritually for the external and internal respect he is expected to just concede, without leaving her and going through a long dark walk to find healing and start anew?

The wisdom for him is, stay and be a miserable guy who got cucked and get over it by talking through your feelings in therapy till they are merely a dull ache, or start over by leaving and be a miserable guy who got cucked who is now alone.

Whats right about that shit?

In the same frame, his response to her voice about her comfort with his decision is most unloving and there is a noticeably abusive and vengeful aspect to all this that dooms it on its face.

I know what he will probably go through when you explain that this isnt for you and you arent willing, and when you reinforce boundaries about him stepping out with or without you.

Its hurt. He wont understand why you can have needed/wanted more than him, unilaterally practice nonmonogamy without his permission, exclude and use him, and then expect him to not be able to arrange room for you both to have those experiences, hand in hand, no lies, no betrayal, cruelty free.

He probably wont share it that way, though, he will probably withdraw and justify some vengeful shit. His anger and pain probably make him incapable of doing this "cruelty free".

I understand this, because a long, long time ago, before the reasons that brought me to this site happened, I responded to a previous betrayal by hoping that if monogamy and true love were mirages, that instead agape and sexuality and friendship perhaps were not.

I found that sadly, impossible for myself. People who wanted to involve themself sexually with me or my previous partners were uninterested unless they were "conquering and taking". Without disrespect, there was little eroticism out there for pizza parties and cuddlepuddles.

And what I really wanted the whole time was more in line with monogamy. But I moved my morals and my alignment to try and accommodate a partner when I shouldve found boundaries to live authentically instead.

I pray for you to find a way to the latter.

I really feel for you both and hope that somewhere in the middle, you both can find enough wiggle to treat each other better.

Truly, my deepest sympathies, and best wishes for both of your self respect.

hi Ashamedandhopeless, There were times during recovery that my husband engaged in activities that I did not think were a good idea in the long term (though they did not cause direct damage to me or other people, like overworking or being tighter with finances than was necessary). At first I told him what I thought - this level of work is not a good idea, you are not spending time with the kids, etc - but then I decided he needed to work things out for himself and decide for himself that it wasn't the life he wanted to lead. I think that might be a good idea in this case. You can set your boundary of not participating yourself, saying I have learned the hard way what I want from relationships. Infidelity is NEVER a good choice, but he might need to learn that for himself.

Now I will give an extremely lowbrow comparison that I have been chewing over.

One of my young adult daughters watches Love Island. She's smart, sophisticated, accomplished etc (my silly pride makes me add that caveat) but she loves watching it with her friends and roommates, commenting on the decisions people make and voting in the polls. She's been home for a week before leaving abroad for a few months, so I have been watching it with her. There's an episode almost every night (!) I assume you don't watch the show, because anyone raw to infidelity will be revolted, so I will summarize. A bunch of young people are dumped on a tropical island in Fiji for several weeks, and their only job is to look hot, "explore connections," avoid looking like a douche while "exploring connections," eventually couple up, and then some couple gets voted the winners. Like any other reality show, the producers throw situations at the participants to create drama. At one point, there were (I think) six couples, and they took all the men and put them in a different place with six new women, and added a bunch of men to the women left behind. After a few days, there was a decision to make: would each of the original couple choose to stay together, or would they choose the new person they had been getting to know? Each individual made this choice in isolation, without knowing what the other person would choose, and they had been fed all sorts of photos and videos of their other person interacting with the new person. If you are still reading this nonsense, be patient, it is getting somewhere. (btw I HIGHLY recommend NOT watching Love Island unless you are bonding with your young adult daughter on her terms. It is foul. But there are things within the foulness that are worth saving, as the Christian God well understood).

When the decision happened, there were two couples who stood out to me. KC (m) and Aniya (f) had been a couple by default - they were kind of the leftovers of the initial coupling decisions - but they had spent a few weeks working at building some kind of relationships. But then KC spent time with a new woman (TiTi) who he instantly connected with. He did and said some hurtful things (not aware the camera was rolling - ) and when the denoumente came, Aniya was ANGRY. She attacked, she yelled, she got her friends to yell, she cried but it was not tears of pain but of humiliation and the drama Oh My Goodness the drama! the producers must have loved it. God help KC, they lingered on this horrible drama and milked it for parts of three episodes.

Another couple was also tested. Trinity (f) and Bryce (m) were also put together by default - they did not initially choose each other. And they were not each other's types. I think they each mentioned at one point they don't usually or had never dated outside of their own race, so that was new. Their senses of humor were different, but it worked - they were always laughing together. When they were separated, Bryce did what he was expected to do on the show - "explore a connection" with a new girl - but halfheartedly, all the while pining for Trinity, staring across the lagoon to where she was with the new man, wondering what was happening. Trinity also "explored a connection" with the new man, and she did it a little more enthusiastically, including kissing that was not required by a challenge (in the morality of the show, kissing during a challenge is OK if you keep your hands in a respectful place e.g. not on their butt, but kissing outside of a challenge is considered disrespectful if you are in a sincere relationship). So Trinity not only kissed outside of a challenge, but did it in a photo booth, wanting to capture a moment to remember with the new man! After that she seemed to reconsider, backed way off and separated herself from the new man, telling him clearly that he was not the one and she wanted Bryce. But all Bryce knew was the photos from the photo booth. When the will-she-or-won't-she-choose-me happened, his joy that she chose him was so sincere, so sweet, and so heartfelt. He mentioned in passing that it was painful that she had kissed the other man in the photo booth, and his pain was so sincere, so genuine and so sad, that I actually teared up. And her response was not defensiveness, not justification (I was supposed to be exploring!), not anger, not looking to her friends for support, but just downcast eyes, in pain that she had caused pain. I'm telling you, it was quite a moment. It is sticking with me and I think will stick with me for a long time. But then the moment past, they were reunited, and their joy was so full that poor producers had to move on quickly because there was nothing to gawk at. My daughter looked at me and said, they will probably win, which gives me hope for the Love Island audience.

The point, if you are still with me, is that sitting with pain (the pain of the person who was hurt, which in this case is both your husband and you, AND the pain of the person who did the hurting) and staying with what you want despite humiliation and rejection, is the best path toward sincerity, authenticity, love, and a healthy relationship. It's not guaranteed but it's the best thing you can do. My advice would be - don't fight his wanting to experience what it feels like to be a shit person, but also don't condone it. Just say, I know what I want. I learned it the awful way. I want a relationship with you and only you. It's painful to me that I caused you to not want that, but I'm here when you decide what kind of life you want to live. And for you - if this is a marriage you want to keep - learn how to live with sorrow, with pain, with rejection and humiliation, show and share that pain with him but also be able to function - not looking for him to rescue you but for him to take responsibility for the pain by stopping what he is doing to cause it and expressing remorse - until he decides to be a better self.

[This message edited by Pippin at 3:24 PM, Thursday, July 2nd]

I think 5bluedrops got him right.

However you suffering betrayal will not fix anything, you really don’t want to know what the other side feels like. Is a trauma you truly want to avoid in your life.

I understand you can not undo the infidelity and the misery he suffered.

Inflicting infidelity upon you will not heal him, nor you. revenge pain is not a balm.

I too understand him but infidelity can’t be undone.

He can undo the relationship and move on. If he can’t reconcile that is the best for you both