SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A lot of judges will toss a post nup.

And some don't.

See what the lawyer says, Fold. Either way, I think it's good work to have done. It is reality. It is showing him the consequences of his actions. It gives you a sense of what your life might look like after divorce. It's likely the terms could be easily converted to a divorce settlement so well worth the effort.

Good for you. Again, your ability to perform at this level so soon after Dday is remarkable.

In my phone consult the attorney told me in our state that post nuptial agreements convert readily to divorce agreements the vast majority of the time, given neither party was coerced to sign.

Of course if one or both of us decides to challenge what is outlined in the post nup during a divorce proceeding we have the right to do so. We have also included language stating whomever challenges the post nup will pay all legal fees for the changes made if and when it is entered as a divorce proceeding.

I’m not an expert so leaving it up to my attorney of course.

I demanded a post nup to even consider R.

My H willingly signed. It’s been 10 years and we have not had a need for it. But I keep it b/c it is my protection. Just in case.

1st Wife: This was my immediate demand and he agreed entirely. The shift has been "I need this to feel protected in case we divorce because of your infidelity" to "this is a roadmap for divorce which is likely inevitable."

That’s where we stand for now at least. It feels like it is going to happen. At least I can protect myself and kids.

I was certain I was D my H too.

I don’t know how but I was able to see changes in less than 30 days. And it took my therapist to point it out to me. I was that focused on D.

But my therapist showed me some positives and said he really believed that we had a chance. But it was up to me.

As I’ve stated it took me a year to stop waking up thinking "I am D him".

1st wife: I’m so heartened to hear that. You really do have a great success story here and it’s so considerate you continue to help support others who are going through what you went through, even if their outcomes will be different.

The waffling is so crazy. I’ll look at him one minute and think how much I despise him for what he has done and then the next minute I will think that maybe it’s worth trying to save. I am as much afraid to stay and be miserable and potentially hurt again as I am to go and be alone and struggling and wishing I had kept the family together.

And then it’s not up to me either. He doesn’t know as much as I don’t know what we will each choose in the end.

I am so sorry you are dealing with all of this.

In order to have any chance to R with me, I would insist on a poly, with one of the questions being something like "Since we've been married, have you had sexual contact with any other person besides (the woman he was with)?

I find it telling that both times you found out it's because the OW came forward with the information. I'm uncomfortable thinking that this guy is just unlucky and that every time he cheated he's been busted.

Take what I said with a grain of salt, but it is another thing to consider. (I know you can't get a poly now, but I wouldn't reconcile until and unless he took it.)

It’s on my mind constantly, Funhouse. He was caught twice. Has he not been caught other times? He swears no but I don’t know. I don’t trust him and he can’t do a polygraph so it’s his word or not.

For now that’s all I can do. Especially as he is leaning into being "emotionally blocked" so isn’t coming across as full of regret for what he’s done to me.

My gut is he just feels this all isn’t worth it and he will decide to walk away. I certainly don’t want to be with someone who isn’t interested in doing everything he could to make reparations. And I don’t want to be with someone who is so selfish to take an easy out, even at the expense of his kids, wholly agreeing to see them just four days a month instead of putting effort in to attempt to fix the mess he created. But I have to admit it will still be hard to hear that after everything he has destroyed that he might be fine leaving all the broken pieces behind for me to clean up myself.

We had another conversation today that just didn’t go anywhere. His script is that he is working through things and when he has a better footing on the why and how and what next he will let me know. Each day I feel more like divorce is inevitable. What’s there to salvage when after a full month he can only say "I’m sorry, I apologize, I know I hurt you." And feel that is "enough" for me to believe he wants to try to make it work.

He must be kidding with his "when I have answers I will let you know" response.

Unacceptable!!!

His problem (or part of his problem) is that he thinks he can cheat, face an assault charge, potentially lose his career, put your family at financial risk AND think he can control this situation and respond on "his terms".

Dday2 my H thought the same thing. His plan was to R but never admit he had continued the affair the last 5 months (after telling me he ended it). Except I learned everything that has been going on.

And up-ended his plan by blindsiding him with my plan to D him and tell him he had to leave. For the first time he was not going to get his way.

I would have an immediate response to his plan. Hell no!! would have been my immediate reaction.

Completely agree with 1stWife. You have an incredible amount of emotional discipline for not blowing your top during that conversation.

Perhaps most egregiously, he seems to be taking it for granted that you have given him the benefit of the doubt and that you’re willing to stick by his side and play the supportive wife role while he faces these sexual assault charges. Does he not appreciate the fact that you could’ve hung him out to dry? Or has the fact that he knows you don’t have the means or ability to leave him immediately dulled his sense of urgency?

At the very least, he takes it for granted that you have a "fixer" personality.

If there is anything both his words and his actions demonstrate, it’s that he’a incapable of truly caring about anyone except himself and simply doesn’t value your relationship, marriage, and family the way you do. If he did, he wouldn’t have had his affairs in the first place, and he would be doing everything he could right now give you even the faintest glimmer of hope that the marriage could be saved and your family could remain intact.

1st and Bluer: thanks for your replies. I’m afraid to admit how much this forum is keeping me going most days. I was up all night again and spent time rereading the threads. It means a lot you take the time to write, so thank you.

He said yesterday that he just doesn’t have more answers now. He doesn’t know why he cheated, he doesn’t know why he wasn’t stronger. And he doesn’t know what he can do to repair things and what is the right decision for our marriage. And that he was working on everything in counseling (he at least is going now twice a week). He said that he is trying to show me he is serious by doing more for the kids, helping at the house, asking if I want to have meals with them (I can’t eat so am not doing the family dinner thing). Trying to be a family. That he has written me cards to help share his feelings but knows it’s not all I need or want right now. And he’s sorry.

He said that rehashing each day is not a good idea (we have had more talks the last few days other than just logistics check ins) because we both get upset and frustrated. I agree mostly, but it’s difficult because I still feel like he should be doing or saying more. And his reply is that we are different, he processes things differently, he is working through his emotions and expressing them himself and he apologizes if it is not in the way or on the timeline I prefer or expect. I get it in theory. But also don’t get it. I just ended the conversation saying that if he was really serious about trying to make amends the whole of the work was on him and that he didn’t need to wait for an epiphany through therapy to show progress.

And then I cried myself to sleep and was up all night, tossing and turning.

Bluer: To add ..

As for him thinking he has more time and less urgency because I am still here, I see that.

He has said a few times he thought I was going to pack my bags and take the kids the night this all came out and has said he knows he is lucky I haven’t immediately left. I told him not to confuse support with practicality. Where would I run to when I’m thousands of miles from family, without tangible income, with my kids needing to finish their school year, and commitments and appointments here.

I’ve told him I’m not "standing by my man" and not his support system or ally or fixer in this terrible dumpster fire he has lit aflame. But that my kids need stability and a place to sleep and I need logistical support caring for them. For now. I told him I have committed to nothing. If either of us decides it’s over that we will process it quickly and I won’t wait until the end of the school year or end of the lease to move with then, once the divorce decree, child custody agreement, and financial support are finalized. We have already agreed to terms where I’d be removed from our lease/utilities, he’d pay them entirely, and would pay for 50% of my rent on a new home until a divorce is finalized if I leave before then; and after it is final the financial support we have agreed to will cover a small rental unit and utilities for the kids and me as I get back on my feet. We live in a state that can due process everything rapidly, fortunately. Then he would be physically, sans family, alone to deal with all of his problems. All I have asked is that we need an agreement before the school year starts (late August): are we trying or are we divorcing. And we will structure things from there.

At the core he obviously does not care as much about me, our family or our marriage than he likely wants to think he does. He is selfish and self-centered, and he is his sole priority. A good man, a good husband, a good father wouldn’t so easily throw away his life, his wife’s life and negatively impact his kids’ future for a one night stand. That’s on him to deal with. He had everything and he just had to have one more thing. And he got it and now he has wrecked multiple people in the process because he was so selfish and thoughtless. I told him a few weeks ago that I hoped it was the best sex of his life and that an hour of time with a fellow cheater who also doesn’t give a shit about her spouse and kids was the pinnacle of his life experiences. Because that hour of illicit fun has cost him and me every single thing we had built or planned for.

I have been reserved with my words to a degree —l’ r still said some harsh things that he of course deserves — and haven’t raised my voice. Mostly bc the kids are young and always here and we don’t do it in front of them, and because I’m so deeply hurt and shocked I’m still not yet at the raw anger stage. And I have told him that also. Where are the repercussions for cheating on me? You are dealing with the repercussions from this accusation. You’ve lost your career, you’re losing potential leader career opportunities, you might go to jail, you can lose your freedom, he’s lost friends and will lose more. But who is holding you accountable for what you have done to me, separate from your legal troubles? Your family doesn’t know the whole story, or do your friends. My parents talked to him and they know, and my friend talked to him and she knows. But he hasn’t had a hammer come down on him. I’m not unleashing hell so when and how is he facing what he did to me and our family?

He seems to be a reasonably intelligent man,despite having made some horrible decisions.

he doesn’t know what he can do to repair things

He could google how to heal the damage after an affair.

He certainly knows how to hide his affairs. He could figure out what he needs to be doing. He just isn't motivated.

want to have meals with them

A lot of unremorseful WS think doing things around their own house, and parenting their children, is enough. As you know,its not. It's not at all the work he needs to do to become safe.

He said that rehashing each day is not a good idea

For him. It makes him uncomfortable. For a BS, it is helpful to rehash everything, over and over. It's how the brain processes trauma.

if he was really serious about trying to make amends the whole of the work was on him and that he didn’t need to wait for an epiphany through therapy to show progress.

Absolutely.

He is intelligent, about some things at least. And we are both reasonable in many ways. That’s probably what has helped us outline what the particulars are of custody, support, and divorce issues. Just to have something ironed out and to refer back to as needed. When needed.

I agree that he is stagnant and avoiding dealing with the marriage and what he’s done. I think he’s still hyper focused on his legal and career problems. He claims he has told his therapist he wants to focus first on communicating with me and managing the fallout. I suppose time will tell. He is asking his therapist for book suggestions this week, so I suppose that is something though it takes a second to Google what to read or work on. I presume he is thinking "I’m seeing a therapist to help me with my wife and will see what I am recommended to do" and so he has made the check mark. He can be very narrow in his scope and this could be where that’s coming in. Or he’s simply back burnering it because it’s easier and more comfortable to lean into being a victim with the legal issue than address his wrongdoings to his family.

I feel like I’m going to have to force the decision and the decision will have to be to divorce. Unless he puts in true effort and figures out the how and what and why, then what is the point in waiting around? I’m back and forth and he says he is too. I’ve asked for a firm direction in the next 8 weeks. Of what he intends to do, and my decision will come after that.

Has anyone used benchmarks or timeframes to get to progress or an answer? Particularly when the aggrieved feels pressured to make a firm plan and the wayward spouse is on a slower, more meandering path? Did it help or hinder?

I’m sorry for you.

It appears he is being dragged down the R path. He doesn’t appear to have a clue about the situation IMO.

At least he’s being "honest" and telling you he does not know what he wants. I think 8 weeks is too long to give him to decide. My H tried play that game with me. He was going to let me know at the end of the summer what he wanted to do.

Stupidly I went along with it.

In hindsight I should have D him right then. He no longer lived me and was D me to be with his MLC (midlife crisis) OW.

In this case the H is waffling and not fully committed. Not a good sign. If the cheater or betrayed really wants to R, they do it 100% whether they will be successful or not.

They are committed to R. Not trying to obtain a guarantee it will work out before they do the work or put in the effort.

I hope he gets his head screwed on straight soon.

Has he read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald?

I have myself 6 month increments to evaluate the M and whether I'd stay. At 12 months, I could see he wasn't doing the work. At 18 months, he confessed to inappropriate contact with another person, which was my hard stop.

My XWH didn't get to dictate the the timeframe.

You rehashing things? That's your brain on trauma, and he needs to answer your questions. He doesn't like it because it makes him feel uncomfortable. Well, if he'd kept his d* in his pants, you wouldn't be in this situation.

You are hearing from women. A man would tell you that the mess he has made of his employment life is eating him alive. You and your children are a very distant second. Men define themselves by what they do. Also he had the ability in his job to be the boss. I know the military has hierarchy but each rank has some privileges of power. Until that is settled you won’t get much out of him. He is treading water and feeling as if he is drowning.
I just keep reading about men in the military in positions of power losing important jobs because their bosses have lost the ability to rely on them. I assume it is a euphemism for cheating. It seems to be an epidemic.
I think you need to be realistic about this. Until he knows the outcome he is not concentrating on you. That is the sad fact of life in the military.

What Cooley said may be true but it doesn't excuse it. This isn't his first rodeo. Somehow he managed to do more back then. You don't and shouldn't have to put up with being second to the career he just torpedoed. You deserve more than him flip-flopping and attempting to substitute working on himself for managing you.

Has anyone used benchmarks or timeframes to get to progress or an answer? Particularly when the aggrieved feels pressured to make a firm plan and the wayward spouse is on a slower, more meandering path? Did it help or hinder?

My situation was not like the 1stWifes - I said I was leaving and made legal moves to do so and his attitude really didn't change much. His wishy-washiness and lack of 100% commitment to working on himself/us didn't differ much from your WS now - sometimes it seemed like he was saying he wanted to but his actions indicated much less determination to do so.

I had timeframes that my WH initially knew about, which got completely blown up by COVID lockdown. That being said his attitude did not change even when he knew I had set deadlines for various benchmarks which I believed needed to happen for me to stay until I actually left him physically. He "knew" I had plans to go unless something/many things changed for over a year, but he seemed to not take that seriously or otherwise process it was really happening so I stopped talking about it. It was not until I actually found a new job and was making moves to go to a new place, far from him, that he decided to make changes (or at least actually did start working on himself - IDK for sure what he was actually thinking at that time) - and by then...I was feeling like leaving was the right thing, and that's what I did.

In hindsight, perhaps had I actually taken the leap earlier, maybe he would have altered his behavior sooner and things would be different. One of my only regrets about my own actions: not taking action sooner to remove myself from him, not because I wanted to go but because LIMBO and allowing him to remain there not only hurt me more but also numbed and eventually killed off my desire to make it work with him in any meaningful way.