SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just so you know where I am coming from…
I left my fiancé after a 2 year engagement and +5 year allegedly monogamous relationship after I walked in on her having sex with another man. We were madly in love and wildly happy with life and where we were headed. The last "normal" conversation I had with her was about 7-8 hours previously to arriving unexpectedly home and it was about some seating arrangements and confirmation of the DJ for our big wedding – 4 weeks and 6 days in the never-to-be-future.

I didn’t hurt any less than any other betrayed husband or boyfriend whose whole future was wrecked in the seconds after d-day. What being engaged versus married, no kids versus two kids, a mortgage and a couple of car-leases meant was that the TECHNICAL part of separation was easy. I could walk out of that apartment and have my bro go pick up my stuff a couple of days later. Lost my Springsteen vinyl records, but that was it.
Still took me six months to understand why I should get out of bed every morning, 12 months before I felt semi-OK and 2 years before I started having normal relationships with women. The emotional part was hell.

Turns out that my fiancé would occasionally (I never discovered how often) go to bars when I was working and pick up random lovers. The OM she was with that time was irrelevant. It’s my understanding that she usually went to their places, their cars or whatever, but in this instance (and possibly more) it was my bed.
For ME the decision was clear. Not easy but clear. I just had this instant feeling that if she was willing to do this NOW when we were blooming in our personal lives, our careers, our friends… then it couldn’t get better. It could only get worse. I willingly admit that now – if my present wife of many years (and not the ex fiancé) were to cheat – I would have to think what I would do. More involved now, more stakeholders, more paperwork…

In MY instance the theory is that she had cold feet as the day approached. She told me that she planned to quit once we were married… I personally think she became bolder and took more risks in some subconscious hope that I would suspect her and call off the marriage. A marital suicide-by-cop if you will.

THAT is what I was wondering about in your situation. That’s why I was asking about the long relationship, who initiated the engagement and so on. Sometimes changes in an already stable relationship can be an attempt to rekindle something lost. I’m simply trying to understand what her line-of-thought might have been.

Friend – 11 years is a long time. Maybe your fiancé will wake up to reality and start work on herself. Maybe not. I do encourage you to take the present very seriously – it does sound like a lot in her behavior was… well… if not planned then intentional.

When people reconcile they do it from a point of truth. I would imagine that in your instance your GF needs to dig deep to understand why she allowed herself to act this way, and how intentional it was to get you out of the way and to return with the knowledge she was going to cheat. I’m not stating this to hurt you – but because acknowledging that truth is imperative if you two are going to survive this.

Brother I'm sorry that you're here, but she's been a depressed and an alcoholic for quite sometime and now a cheater, datig/engagement is a trial and she has failed miserably, you're young and deserve so much better. Also don't be an accomplice to her huge betrayal and tell your close relatives and friends the truth, you don't have to give them the gory details other than "she cheated", focus on yourself and your career now, you dodged a bullet. Good luck.

To answer your question re telling others - I did immediately tell one of my best friends. The rest took time - over a year in some cases. I was embarrassed and humiliated, and in hindsight I stayed quiet less to protect my WH's image then my own. I never really told my parents (my mother and I are not close at all and my dad and I don't talk about romantic relationship things - but we do about everything else - weird I know) and when I did tell other friends eventually it was fine - no one judged me and no one tried to kill my WH.

In regards to owning a house together, you may want to contact a solicitor/lawyer regarding the legal implications of separating, if you do - and get those things in place NOW while it seems you are on speaking terms. Unfortunately not being legally married usually brings with it a lot more uncertainty when it comes to joint assets. You need to hammer that down now...which brings me to this:

IDK what your habitation status was for the 11 years, but the fact that you own property together indicates a level of commitment that in some jurisdictions can be converted to a common law marriage. You definitely need to determine IF those laws may apply to you as financial obligations (and protections) may arise that you were not aware of.

Again, I'm sorry you are here. IMO, and maybe that's where I differ from others - at 11 years you are no longer in a "trial" marriage - you are in a marriage without the paperwork. You have your own reasons for not formally marrying yet and/or ever (I did too for a long time - they were solely related to burdening my future spouse and anything we purchased together with my then substantial student loan debt - my commitment was no less than if we were married then and to me when we did marry the paper changed nothing in that regard). Go easy on yourself and take whatever advice you want and ignore the rest - that's what 99% of us here likely did too when posting in JFO. It's incredibly hard. Try to get sleep and drink lots of non-boozy-fluids and educate yourself on your options. The key here is to take care of YOU. The rest will come, one way or the other.

LegsWideShut - I would PM but can't.

I know thats how my post was meant. If you wish to take it wrong, you do you.

I can only tell you that when I started posting years ago, for whatever reason, I FELT when some people would comment something to the effect of "you don't have kids - you're lucky as it's so much easier - you should get out now" it made me feel like I had "lesser problems" and there was no valid reason for me to even consider wanting to stay and the answers should be "so obvious" but to me they were not. Someone then posted something akin to what I said in one of those early threads and it made me feel so much better. That was my whole point. It's not a personal attack on you, just a hope that people will be more mindful of how they address the childless and/or unmarried as it really sucks to feel like I did in the beginning. It never fails that at least one poster will say something like you did when I have made similar comments in the past, and for that I'm sorry as my comment was only for the benefit of the OP.

Sorry for the T/J.

Read Bigger's last post again as it is amazingly on point. Especially this:

When people reconcile they do it from a point of truth. I would imagine that in your instance your GF needs to dig deep to understand why she allowed herself to act this way, and how intentional it was to get you out of the way and to return with the knowledge she was going to cheat. I’m not stating this to hurt you – but because acknowledging that truth is imperative if you two are going to survive this.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 12:13 AM, Thursday, October 27th]

Although you may not see this at this time, what people are telling you is not to belittle you, but to help you make your best decision for YOUR future. We have seen this played out a huge amount of times. We are trying to help you get the best result at a safer path.

As you distance yourself from her/the relationship, you will be able to see more clearly.

At this point, your priority needs to be you. What will best help you forward with a goal of best result/self fulfillment.

Start attacking your goals. This is a good place to start. Initially narrow them down so that you can focus more strongly, then smash them.

Start off with physical ones including weights, as they not only build you but they wear you out.

[This message edited by paboy at 4:21 AM, Thursday, October 27th]

A depressed alcoholic cheater. From the outside, this is not considered a good bet.

I am you kinda in the future, My wife when we were only dating had six ONS but I didnt find out until I was married 10 years with two kids. I stayed and her reckless behavior shocked me to my core and I still have bouts of depression over this issue to this day 23 yrs after disclosure.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the wisdom. I haven't been on here lately, even the thought of reading this stuff just brings up the memories of the incident, which is too hard to bear right now. Ive been in for therapy and have been able to confide all the details of what happened to an emotionally intelligent friend of mine, which was just such a relief. Every day just sucks though. Nothing works as a distraction and I cannot sleep at all. I find myself just passing out from sheer exhaustion rather than actually falling asleep. But in my home town at my mums house sucks, makes me feel like a teenager again. I know I just need time to process everything, but this early stage is just so rough.

Yes the early stages are devastating. I slept 45 minutes each night for at least 99 days. I lost weight I couldn’t afford to lose. I had a toxic boss who only added to my stress as I now needed my job.

I had no $, kids, a mortgage I couldn’t afford and my H was kicking me to the curb for the much younger OW. (Not comparing here, every Dday is horrific).

I’m trying to show you that you will survive it. We all do. It just takes time. Unfortunately it is a slow recovery process whether you permanently end the relationship or you get back together.

11 years is a long time. It is hard to walk away from that. It’s hard to understand it. The mental torture of trying to "understand" the cheating is horrific. Only thing I learned is that it has NOTHING to do with you and EVERYTHING to do with the cheater.

One piece of advice. I have 12 friends who all were cheated on by their BF/GF and then became engaged and married the cheater. Guess what? The cheating continued throughout the marriage. It never stopped.

Why? Because R with those cheaters signaled that the betrayed was accepting of the cheating. The cheaters "got away" with the cheating so it became "ok"in their mind. Warped thinking I know.

But all 12 of those friends regretted R and getting engaged and married to their cheating spouse. Their life was a living hell and filled with more drama than a soap opera.

And in real life when the chips are down you find out who your friends are. My family (except for 1 sibling) was basically "suck it up and move on" to me. No support whatsoever. Period.

You are not worthless, she is. Get rid of her. She's not worth your heart. Tell your family and hers. Start with a new love one day.

She has not made a mistake, she decided to stab you in the back.

It is as black and white as she has cheated, just write her off. Adulterous scum is not worth our time.

Let any married woman who wishes to be a happy single 304 be a little 304^6 on her own time, single and supporting herself. You'll respect yourself enough only to keep a faithful, loving woman in your life.

you don't reward someone who has given herself to the streets by keeping them around. You have them make their home in the streets to which they gave themselves to.

Like murder adultery only need happen once to kill a lifetime worth of everything else.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 2:03 PM, Monday, October 31st]

I’m not going to fall into the "not married then leave" faction. Its clearly not what you want and yelling it at your for the nth time wont get anyone anywhere.
I get the emotional connection and the time invested in this relationship. I do however think a couple of statements are in order (I hate calling things that are based on emotions "facts", but these statements are about as factual as they get).
>What married and not married define is the complexity of separating. Marriage is a legal contract, and you need legal action to separate. Not so much with a non-married relationship. Doesn’t make the emotional pain much less – other than a complete detachment is possible as opposed to parenting and such.

>Love is not a good defining reason to remain in a relationship. It would be dumb to assume that all those that divorced didn’t love their spouse or had a loveless marriage. Sometimes people act based on their reality rather than emotions. Like if your fiancé was still seeing this man or was hooking up with other men your "love" wouldn’t change the fact you were still in infidelity.

This site can coarsely be divided into three groups - probably equally large:
There are those that reconciled their relationships.
There are those that separated/divorced.
There are those that did neither and are trying to live with untreated infidelity. Might be inactive infidelity (as in your fiancé no longer seeing OM) but it’s still not dealt with.

Personally I think the first two groups are doing fine, but the last is something I would want to avoid.

---
Friend – what you need is truth and commitment.
That actually goes both ways – if you want to divorce or if you want to reconcile. If you don’t have both then divorce is really the only realistic path. Heck… even the honesty of your fiancé telling you she doesn’t want the commitment would be a truthful and honest answer (we have so many instances where the WS claims to want to R but still sees the OP).

I think you and your fiancé should talk honestly and openly about what happened and what your next possible steps might be. I think it’s to both your advantage to acknowledge that ending it now is an open, viable and possible outcome. That awareness might make you both better prepared to realize the seriousness of the situation and can make you both work better for a resolution.

I asked some questions regarding your relationship. I then explained why I asked them. I think they are all relative to the situation. Who is pressing for change in this relationship? Who initiated the purchase of the home, who suggested engagement? Is there some fear from her to commit?

This isn’t an accident. She kissed the guy with you around, not really as if she cared if you saw. Once again: fear of commitment?

If there is fear, then why?

You're almost 2 weeks out from d-day. The SI rule of thumb is that it takes 2-5 years to recover from being betrayed. Your life as you describe it - no sleep, no joy, hyper-focused on your betrayal - is normal for now. Your desire to R despite the advice you've gotten is normal for now. Your state of mind and spirit is normal for now.

The weeks after d-day were the worst period of my life. It takes more than 2 weeks to comprehend the devastation wrought by betrayal. It takes more than 2 weeks to comprehend the disillusion you have to go through.

Your life will get better, but not yet. What got me through it was accessing an 'observer/guide' in my head. My self-talk kept telling me that I was essentially going through a phase and that I'd come out OK. My inner guide told me to go for the best resolution I could get and that it might take me some time to figure out what that resolution would be. As I felt worse and worse as the depth of the pain became clear, my guide told me to ride the waves of emotion, to let my mind go the way it wanted to go, and to have faith in myself to figure out what was best for me. It took about 6 months for me to hit my rock bottom, but the length of time to hit bedrock varies widely.

Love is not enough for R to succeed, just as love from one person is not enough to cure another's alcoholism. That's a big sticking point to me. Alcohol is generally a depressant, and your WS is depressed already.

Is she addicted to alcohol? Is she willing to get treated for depression? If she's not willing to see the benefits of treatment for her depression and her potential addiction, she will be unable to change from cheater to good partner. If you stay under those conditions, you will be living with a time bomb.

She has to want to change for herself for the change to be effective. She has to take responsibility for herself, and she has to have some hope for her healing.

After 11 years together, I don't know if I'd leave immediately. That's not fallacious (sunk cost) thinking; rather, my bet is that you've built a lot of bonds in those 11 years, and a goodly portion of those bonds are likely to be healthy. It's not easy to cut those ties. I know I took 90 days to evaluate my options; others take/took quite a bit longer. There's no need to break off right now.

There is a need to observe yourself so you know what you want. If you truly want R, it is necessary to evaluate your fiancee as a candidate for R - that means, at the least, requiring no more lies, no more excessive drinking, getting treatment for her depression (with therapy, not just drugs).

First, weather the storm

Then figure out what you really want.

If you really want R, then find out how a good a candidate for R your fiancee is.

If she's a good candidate, great - you can start R and keep going if you both do your work.

If she's not a good candidate, or if one or both of you stop doing the necessary work, it's probably best to end the relationship....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:33 PM, Monday, October 31st]

I to relate to people who on a sentimental side (or even overall when people live together) that marriage versus being together does not change the overall dynamic of the issue.

As Bigger said above, to go forward one way or another you need TRUTH.

You both need to be absolute sure you both know what you want going forward. In that I mean, his there Love from BOTH sides? If there is (and it can still be possible given the circunstances you described on the cheating aspect). From how I see it, things have a few ways to go. You can separate if love is no longer present/if paths seem to be going diferent ways, or R could be possible if the mess in your WW head is somewhat possible to be "fixed". She needs professional thteatment for depression. Because she is sick. She is not properly funtioning. That does not excuse the cheating but needs adressing if you two want to work your way through life together.

Depression is no joke. Add to it alchool and cheating and "Houston, we have a problem". She needs to WANT to be treated for depression. It is not easy to do so. Passively waiting for a miracle cure does not get her anywhere. Careers can be changed as with long life plans. And it can all be made while both of you are together. Again, IF you both love one another. Anything else is an excuse for what is inexcusable.

If things are to work out she needs to be truhfull to you. She cheated. End of. She lied. She needs to understand why she did what she did.

Bondaries. Written timeline (even if it was really just that one time it helps her go into the betrayal trauma inflicted upon you and maybe reflect upon it), STD testing. And no intimacy/sex. Use the time available to take care of yourself and check where things may possibly go going forward. Again, for that to happen love has to be present and abundant - from both sides.

One way or another that is how life goes sometimes. You are still YOU. You are still INTACT (although it may not seem like it for now).

Stay strong. Stay focused. Eat, drink plenty of water and try to sleep. Exercise/go for long walks. Tell friends and family about the issue. Grown people should be accountable for their actions no matter what. If they will learn form them they will learn from them no matter in which matter.

Always remember that planet Earth does not stop spinning because such an issue arised. Nor did your life end - on the countrary. You are wiser now. More info to absorve and to make you STRONGER going forward. Be the better man for yourself. Live in the moment and enjoy every single aspect of it. Access and go from there. You never know what tomorrow brings.

You are not alone.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 9:28 PM, Monday, October 31st]

I will put out there that you seem to be really upset at people telling you to leave her.
They are speaking from experience that after someone hurts you like the cheating you experienced, she needs to be the one to come back and beg for forgiveness. You seem to think that if you can get over it somehow you will be able to make this work by being good enough to fill the void inside of her.
Maybe let her grow up a bit and step back. How has you living arrangement been? Have you talked to her since the break up to figure out what you are doing with the house? Did she text you every dat for the last couple of weeks and you have been texting back, so she hasn't had time to realize she could have lost you. She needs that realization to drive her to change. She has to change for you. This behavior is out of line and you need to see some kind of serious improvement or you will have it happen again. To get back together with her, she also needs to break down how she justified it to herself? She went back to the bar knowing things would end up badly. Then she kept saying she knew what she was doing every step of the way. Your love wasn't enough to stop her. Why? She needs to find a way to make it enough. She needs to value that love. Without it, she needs to see she misses it. I hope you are doing better, but you sound sad. Good luck and keep working on yourself.

you aren't married. You are not curently living with her and her excuse is weak.

Your decision should be easy right now.

This is your chance to escape an awful situation.

Why the hesitation ? At this point, it costs you nothing .

The hesitation comes from loving her, having a shared history and shared future dreams. He's not just losing a person, he's losing the life he had and the future life he wanted and invested heavily in.

He's weeks in and devastated. Which is perfectly normal.

OP you've done some really good things for yourself. Leaving and going home was the right move. Distance allows you to process your grief and thoughts without the confusion and pain of being around the person who betrayed you.

Therapy is an excellent idea. Confiding in a friend also excellent. You need support.

This early on focus on you and your healing is about all one can usually muster. The decision to move on or reconcile need not be made this instant. Almost every single betrayed needed time to get up off the floor before they could make such a huge decision. It's extremely hard to get to acceptance and it takes time. But I believe that until we reach acceptance of what happened, who our spouses truly are and what are chances of happiness really are, we cannot make good decisions.

Keep up with your self care. Someone suggested a part time job, that might help. A purpose to your day, getting up and out for even a few hours will give you some kind of break from the pain. Do other things that bring you joy or at least reprieve. Build on those moments of happiness or comfort. I'd also suggest minimum contact with her if you can help it. You need clarity and so does she. True time apart usually helps.

You've been taken down by her betrayal. You're in pain. The antidote to pain is strength. Like going to physical therapy after breaking your leg. The stronger you muscles get, the more the pain is reduced. It's the same here. Focus on your healing and building your strength. The pain will ease and your thinking will get clearer.

At this point, it costs you nothing .

Well… it does. And that’s why the hesitation.
It costs a boatload plus more in emotional pain. I find it wrong for us to dismiss that cost.

The crux is that a lot of that pain is something you would have to deal with even if you remained with her. Like maybe 80% of the issues. The relationship itself will provide the other 20% that are different than if you were separating. At the end of the day it’s 100% pain – only a question of what sort of pain for part of it.

The BIG difference in how complex it can be is that if you were to separate you deal with your pain. You distance yourself from her as a cause of new pain. Experience indicates that divorce people have a tough 12 months but the next 12 tend to be a time of positive recovery. I guess the same applies for long-term-non-married relationships. I know it took me about 8 months before I realized life was worth living…
If you remain in the relationship any emotional progress can be hindered or set back by the actions of the other person. But… it can also be speed or supported by the actions of the other person. It’s a risk.
That risk might be more worth it if there are aspects like a mortgage, pension and kids that add pebbles to the scale of reconciliation. But there is no denying that if not married A LOT of the separation process is technically easier.

Friend – If you and your fiancé are still together OR as still thinking of reconciling then ask her to do this one, single and simple test:
Abstain totally 100% from alcohol for the next three months.
Heck... I would even suggest YOU do so irrespective of R or S. Booze is a depressive and adding it to a depressed mindset is not a great idea.

You mention drinking and she’s been branded here as an alcoholic. Big difference in someone that abuses alcohol or drinks too much and an alcoholic. If the former she could comply relatively easily with that request, but if she can’t it might be the later. I have strong views on the ability of active addicts to be faithful to a relationship (and that might explain better the commitment fear I have asked about).