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Fournlau,

I would recommend your husband read some things about trauma and processing trauma. It is very enlightening and can help them to understand more about why your brain needs these things to settle. Why revisiting them until each one is healed is just simply what it takes. And, that he should also take some of the burden from you in bringing the affair up himself.

Mrswalloped and hikingout thank you for the responses. My WS does answer questions, it's just that he constantly pushes back about it. Yes, he would prefer I stop asking questions, stop thinking about it, stop talking about it and move on. Which sometimes makes me not bring things up at all. He says he will talk as much as I need him to, but he will never bring it up himself, even though I've asked for him to do this.

As for whether we're headed to D or R, I'm still not "all in" for R. Still processing and watching his actions. He has said that I might be asking these questions as a way to not move forward (which to me minimizes my need). He's said that maybe he would be more willing to just keep answering if he knew "why" I needed the answers. Really? Why?

The questions I have aren't even that sensitive: "You said she kissed you, when did that happen? Where were you? What did you think when it happened?" "Was the first time you had sex planned? Did you talk about it before hand? Where did it happen? Was it her place? Your place? What did you think and feel before, during, and after?" And sure, I have some questions about the actual sex, but nothing in depth! Most of my questions would probably be answered with a Timeline, but I've never gotten one. TBH though, I have never asked for one, I think he would push back on that too. Maybe I can bring it up in therapy!

IDK, not sure how to convince him to be open and answer my questions whenever I ask them. And honestly, I don't think I should have to! If he wants to R, it's him who should be convincing me why I should stay!

Hiking out, if you or anyone else, can point me in the right direction of a resource I can give him about this, I would appreciate it. Even that though, is something he should be doing himself!

I have a question for any exWW.

I know almost all cheaters do not believe they will get caught, but I find it hard to believe no matter how good you are at compartmentalizing, there has to be some thought, even fleeting when you are alone, of what your BH will do if you get caught.

My XWW stunned me when she said she actually knew I would hit the roof but before D Day did not think I would divorce her as long as she was not in an deep emotional affair.

if you haven't read my thread, its long and in my profile but i do not feel what she did was an affair. It was adultery, and she just sport fucked two guys 20 years younger than her and led them around by the nose. It was all about the power and control and I explained that.

But back to that question, what were you thinking most likely would happen if you got caught. I still cannot believe it NEVER enters anyones mind. Am I crazy????

Fornlau,

I can relate in a way...

I recall after D-Day, I was thinking I could control the outcome, deal with everything and just carry on. I was doing IC, spilling my guts out, doing everything I could and felt that since I was done with the A, that once my BW gets all the details we can just move on. WRONG.

I started to get frustrated at my BW about 9 months post D-Day because it felt like we were stil going over the same ground and not moving forward with R. It took a good MC to point out to me how were were at 'different' stages of recovery. My IC was too nice at first to get me to open my eyes. I have to admit it was the MC sessions where I saw my BW's pain that helped me get my head out of my ass and realize the damage done.

From what you wrote it almost sounds like you two are where I was at 9-12 months out.

Yes, a timeline helps. It will help your WH as he will start to see the facts as he writes them out, but he will then start to understand the damages and the whys. It is the why's that you want to get your WH to start to understand. Going over facts of the A are ashes on the floor. The why's are still rocks sitting there waiting to be turned over to see what is there. That is where your next level of growth rests.

Go to the top of the Wayward Side forum - there is one pinned post at the top - print out the first post for your WH.

I also bumped Maia's reframing needs and validation post - this one may also be relevant for you WH.

[This message edited by MrCleanSlate at 2:42 PM, November 24th (Tuesday)]

BeyondRage,

I knew he would divorce me. And he did.

I knew he would divorce me. And he did.

Thanks DF. At least you thought about it. I still think that although women know men overwhelmingly state that thats exactly what will happen, in todays society it in the minority, at least right away.

My guess is 90% or more of the guys on SI stated exactly what you husband did, but if we did that the 90% wouldn't be here.

BR,

He made that decision on D-day, with no hesitation.

He did later regret being so hasty, hence our getting back together a couple years later. But at the time, he was fully confident in his decision, and I didn’t blame him. I would have divorced me too.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:35 PM, November 24th (Tuesday)]

He made that decision on D-day, with no hesitation.

I'd say very few that do that make it to SI. And even those that go to that as the first option, once we calculate the consequences both financially and family wise, I'd say the great majority start to consider other options. Now if your are in your 20's or 30's with no kids I'd say what your husband did happens more often.

Obviously just my opinion.

I was just startled to hear that the possibility that I might divorce her right away didn't hit her until I told her to leave the house for her parents. That happened very quickly

I was in my late 20s and he was in his early 40s and we didn’t have kids yet, so it made total sense.

Now, our marriage is worse than it ever was, and yet we have two really little ones so we’re stuck.

But back to that question, what were you thinking most likely would happen if you got caught. I still cannot believe it NEVER enters anyones mind. Am I crazy????

Hi BeyondRage.

I don’t think you’re crazy, but I do think everyone is different so the answer won’t be the same.

It entered my mind, but I pushed it out and didn’t let myself think about it. In the back of my head I knew he would divorce me. But I was in fantasyland during my A and I brushed off any thoughts that would disrupt my world. As it is I had feelings of self loathing at the beginning and then I threw myself into my bubble. Thoughts of consequences would have popped it and I didn’t want that. Just like thoughts about what I was doing and who I was doing it to were swept aside, what would happen if he found out was not something I dwelled on. He wasn’t going to find out. Not because I took any real steps to hide it or because I was so devious. But because I was naive and silly and so wrapped up in myself that anything other than that world I was living in didn’t really matter. So why worry about something that wasn’t going to happen. Especially if it was going to intrude on my fantasy life with the real world? So thoughts like that were fleeting at best and had no place in my head during my A. Until of course he did find out.

Did any of you keep contact with OW/OM, after DDay and continue to deny it to your spouse?

My situation is long and complicated but long story short, the A was with my BFF. It was as far as I know an EA for over a year. Both DH and OW told their story but things still didn't add up for me. A while ago, I found some deleted texts from OW right after DDay. They were "I miss you" type quotes (that she found online). I questioned DH but he denied it for almost a year. A month after DDay, we were also texting about meeting for lunch when i got a random text saying "I'd never avoid being somewhere because you were there." I felt at that moment it was a mistake and he was texting her at the same time as me however he denied it and said he was doing multiple things at work and trying to text me about lunch but what he typed made no sense.

A few months ago, I finally reached my breaking point as my gut told me there was still communication after I found out and told DH I had proof of it all. It was only at that point that he came clean and his reason for the ongoing contact (for 2 months) was that he was still in a really bad place and was devastated by what he had done to me. He was still in contact with her but only because he was so distraught over losing me and didn't know what to do. He said they continued contact because they were both trying to repair their relationships with us (BS) and felt each other were the only people that would "understand".

I have honestly worked hard at moving past the A betrayal but for me, knowing that he was still reaching out to her after DDay has changed everything for me. He knew at the point I found out about the EA that I would not tolerate anymore betrayal yet he still risked everything with/for her.

DH has been a totally different person and I have no concerns with the EA still going on. He is attentive and made drastic changes but I can't move past this point. I feel like it has changed so much for me and how I feel about him and our marriage.

If you maintained contact with other person after DDay... was it because you weren't ready to let go of them? That is what I feel happened but he denies it. I don't think you would risk getting caught again if it meant nothing. He has repeatedly said he didn't ever think of me in any of this, which I totally agree but feel like maybe she wanted nothing more to do with him and that's why it finally ended versus him really wanting our marriage.

If you maintained contact with other person after DDay... was it because you weren't ready to let go of them?

Partly, yes. I wasn't ready to let go of how he made me feel about myself -- irresistible, amazing, the face that launched a thousand ships, etc etc. Discovering that BH was devastated (I had expected him to be more angry than crushed) made me feel guilty, which made me feel like an asshole, which made me feel defensive. Over on the other side of the fence, OM thought I could do no wrong. I constructed a narrative in my head where OM was an injured party who needed to be let down gently, which gave me a convenient, noble reason not to cut off my supply of ego kibble. I also felt a misplaced sense of guilt about OM, because I had promised him that we would always be friends. Dropping him felt heartless and selfish. I had to pull my head out of my ass and accept that not all promises can be honorably kept, and that the real victim whose heart needed healing was BH.

When I did finally go NC, it was my own decision, not because OM moved on, and I stuck to it. OM and I haven't been in contact for over three decades.

If you maintained contact with other person after DDay... was it because you weren't ready to let go of them?

This is a question I also have. If more wayward could chime in that wood be great.

When so many lies are told, it's hard to believe that anything is the actual truth. I was well on my way to forgiving the EA but now that this is finally out in the open, I feel I can't trust a word that he says. It really puts you back to square one in the healing process and I feel conflicted.

When a BS says very clearly, if there is any more contact then it's D, how do you continue to lie and continue to contact and continue to say you were still only thinking of yourself and what you needed to get through the chaos. All it tells me as a BS, is that you couldn't cut ties because you didn't want to.

I hope more WS respond because it's such a confusing and damaging thing to have happen with attempting to R.

Just to clarify, I was open with BH about not going NC. I insisted we could be "just friends." That's a different kind of awful, and I'm not making excuses for it, but I can't answer about hiding ongoing contact because I didn't do it.

BH wishes he had given me a hard ultimatum on NC, because it dragged on for months and caused him a lot of trauma. There was no SI back then to validate him that my argument was nuts.

For those of you who had online affairs- did you ever meet up with your AP? Was your BS more forgiving because it didn’t become a physical affair?

If you maintained contact with other person after DDay... was it because you weren't ready to let go of them? That is what I feel happened but he denies it.

If I know one thing about cheaters its that we will lie and deny when confronted to protect ourselves, first and foremost. I remember my first attempt at NC was calling AP just as soon as BH walked out the door on dday to tell him I was busted and that we needed to stop. However I left it very open ended and didn't make it clear that it was over. More of a we need to cool it for now.

It's very common for WS to take things underground, learn to be better at covering their tracks and whatnot.

I think without certain things lining up just right, I feel my odds would have been high taking my A underground. Its difficult to articulate why exactly I think so. And I say that but its very much hypothetical and doing so is not-uncommon, so 🤷‍♀️

The mindset to be in an affair in the first place is very selfish and self-serving. I always say I feel like I had insta-remorse but the first week was very much about protection of self. Even witnessing his pain and everything else my only thought was to get out of as much trouble as possible.

In that moment of the first NC attempt, I had every intention to break it, at some point.

Fast forward 3 days or so, a lot transpired with the help of SI and whatever fog was lingering subsided enough and I was going to commit to NC but not before I poured my heart out in the 2nd NC letter I showed BH that NC and it cut him deeply we did a final together.

But the truth is I didn't want to stop and I wouldn't have if I was never caught. Thats the bottom line for most. Thats why without a doubt its very easy to continue after dday.

Some will risk it because they really think they can get away with it.

[This message edited by foreverlabeled at 5:53 PM, November 28th (Saturday)]

I am just looking to try and understand the mind of a wayward spouse. My husband is the classic i want what i cant have, and when i get it i no longer want it i want the other thing. This has been going back and forth for 2 years and after moving me and my children to a whole other state because he knew he wanted his family back 6 weeks later he decides he cant be without affair partner and decided to move out and in with her. I believe a part of him loves me but loves the life style she is providing for him more and he is like an addict who is too weak to go through the withdrawal, plus she is a manipulative borderline personality and so he is really sucked in. I just can not wrap my head around how he could move us and then leave us for someone he has said on multiple occassions is the worst person he has ever known, after police involvement, property stolen and held hostage for his attention and physical abuse by her, is he truly that selfish or just that messed up emotionally and psychologically? He has gone too far and even though he wants to sit and tell me he doesnt see this working out with ow because he knows she is crazy but has to prove to himself once and for all that she is crazy and states he can only do that if he lives with her, only way he will really beable to walk away from her???? Bull...is he just lying to me or does he by his own BS? He has always been far from a perfect man but who he has turned into is a complete shell of who he was or could be and it just disturbs me to see this version of him. I already no i can not trust anything about him and i am clear that our marriage is over i just wanted to see if anyone else experienced this and if there are any rational ways of explaining it? I am someone who always needs to understand what is under the behavior, its part of my make up. Thanks for any clarity someone can give.

My H is similar to your description. It’s part of his passive aggressive personality. On the surface he’s such a great guy, does all the things for all the people, so helpful, etc. It’s one of the qualities that attracted me to him way back when. But behind closed doors, he complains and resents “all the things” that he in actuality does out of obligation rather than desire. Also, he doesn’t care at all about me, his wife, and having any sort of healthy communication or emotional intimacy. It’s an exhausting way to live.

Thank you, DF! It's so two-faced and I hate it. He would also always complain about his friends not helping out as much as he did. Yeah, my dude, they have boundaries...

I have a question for the WS with KISA-tendencies.

Did you complain to your BS about doing all the stuff for people, while at the same time still doing the stuff? Did you do stuff for other people while denying or procrastinating doing stuff for your BS? If so, why did you put other people and their requests for help above your BS's? Was it the praise you got from the others, while your BS saw it as 'normal in a partnership'? Is it normal for a KISA to do grand gestures while forgetting and ignoring the small stuff?

I would love to get some more insight into this KISA-stuff, anything you can tell me about it would be appreciated.

Would appreciate to hear from others as well

Hockeymom1

If you maintained contact with other person after DDay... was it because you weren't ready to let go of them?

Yes, that's exactly it. My husband found out about the EA-ish part* two weeks after it started. I was on and off NC for four months after that. It was like a drug addiction. I did some really bizarre things to try to force myself to maintain NC. I arranged to be out of the country with my husband for about six weeks. I got laser resurfacing on my face in part because I knew I would look really bad for a few weeks and wouldn't want the AP to see me in person or video. I got a varicose vein treatment on one leg (I had a varicose vein from pregnancies) - I had been putting it off for years - it wasn't a bad treatment but I had to wear a compression garment and my leg was bruised from top to bottom. Not at all sexy. It was like my wiser side was trying to manage the compulsive side.

*"EA-ish part" sorry about the awkward phrasing. I have no idea what to call it. There were no ilys and I knew I didn't like him and we were often mean to each other under the surface.