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Well if she wants to stay I'll know her remorse bit is fake.

She might not want to throw away what is her right in accordance to divorce law in your state despite you wanting a divorce.

I think this thread needs to reconnect to reality… It’s so controlled by impulse and anger, neither something that will get you any final result.
By all means divorce her if this is a dealbreaker, but realize there is a process.

I'm just asking her to leave. Not forcing her. If she wants to stay she can. She already sexually abused and traumatized my son by letting him find disgusting things so I'm not sure what shed gain by staying here.

[This message edited by 40kSpaceMarine at 4:58 AM, Monday, June 5th]

The process is going no contact, I'm not leaving my house, so she should do the right thing. If she doesn't do the right thing, well I know for sure what kind of person she is

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:17 PM, Wednesday, June 7th]

Sir, first of all, I am so sorry to read of your betrayal. The psychological shock and pain of this revelation is, Im sure, excruciating.

A few things about this......

Sorry I can't reply more it's exhausting

The problem is that I didn't end the marriage, she did, I remained married on false pretenses. Yeah she did become a better person after therapy, minus the ya know, lying and keeping me hostage bit. Also she became a better person after therapy, which is fake as hell, if you need therapy to tell you how to act with decency or empathy or anything else you might just be an idiot who isn't worth anything at all to anybody. I mean I just can't understand it. Do you need someone to teach you to breathe too?

I'm not really articulating this well, but my point is my wife is fake, even though her improvements are real. Really goes to show how shitty my wife must have been if a woman who's only purpose in her life is to bang dudes and burn forever gave her advice on how to be a better person.

Firstly, it is exhausting. All if it. Draining to the core. It is one of the reasons this place and others advises intensifying self care post Dday. Its important.

Secondly, you are correct in that the breaking if the marital vows is all on your stbxw. As is the years long deception. To be aided in that deception by your own mother is another bitter pill. Sounds like relational divorce may be necessary for her as well.

Thirdly, you are clearly struggling with that which many betrayeds struggle...the falsity, the duplicity, the parallel lives. Its all mind/soul bending. You are not alone here by any means. Though my betrayal is decades old now and way in my rearview, I still struggle with this. Its one of the reasons I came to this site looking for additional clarity. I started a thread in General on cognitive dissonance and duplicity and got some really great insight. It didnt really end the debate in my mind, but it helped to hear from others. Suffice it to say that the enacting of marital treason warps the treasonous spouse. Now there can be mitigating factors (FoO issues, etc), but it truly remains a mind f for those on the receiving end of the betrayal and deception.

Fourthly, the trauma multipiers of the long term deception and the complicity of your mother are formidable but not insurmountable. My own betrayal included my then "best friend" so I know a bit about trauma mutipliers. Time, self care, therapy, and the help of good friends and family (?) can help you along the path to healing.

Finally, I affirm you moving to divorce her with all purpose. In many cases, I now view the 180, seperation and divorce as a mercy for the betrayed spouse. It is something I sorely regret not enacting but, as they say, hindsight is 20/20. One betrayed said this in their post about their betrayal and it always stuck with me, "My marriage developed gangrene so I had to cut it off." Very apropos imo.

Strength and healing to you in the days ahead.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 5:10 PM, Monday, June 5th]

How do I deal with her being so difficult

What do you mean by "difficult"?

The comments I have made on this thread have been about keeping it real. This one too.

You have clearly stated this is a dealbreaker for you and you want to divorce. Therefore I won’s spend a single word or thought on reconciliation.

Although communications and cooperation would make divorce technically easier then its not necessary. You don’t want to communicate with her so you are deciding (and this is YOUR decision) to go the technically more difficult route.
Go find an attorney, pay him the retainer and have him file. He will have your wife served. Since you aren’t open to discussions then you instruct her to deal with your attorney. She might get her own (and she probably should) and the two of them will wrangle out a solution.

Chances are that solution will end up at a comparable division of assets and debts as you two could reach together or using a mediator – but that requires communications and some understanding of what is legally fair in divorce. But using 2 attorneys haggling over things like "since you cheated you should forfeit the house" (things that will never live the daylight in court) will make this process longer and a lot more expensive.

She's not getting an attorney. Since she's being so upset this might actually work in my favor.

Also, I don't know if I mentioned this before I think I did. But the kids can choose who to stay with, so getting the house is easy peasy according to my guy. It will be stupid that I'll have to still fork over money though. I don't know why she'd need it

I got swinger therapist fired all these years later. So worth it. The streets are always hiring so she'll be fine

I think you need to give yourself time. The anger is too raw and too fresh. (Unless this is always how you look at things and deal with things?)

You're going to have to look at this realistically and through a legal lens if you intend to D. That means remove your feelings, and look at things in a clinical way. She is owed (legally) whatever she is owed. Whether you agree with it or not. We don't "burn the witch or warlock" any longer in this country. You have been married a certain amount of time and that affords each of you rights that cannot be overlooked unless she agrees to it.

Honestly, I would suggest stepping back and just giving yourself time to heal, and digest what has happened and where your life is headed now. Make some clear, level headed decisions when you are ready. You will get there in time, if you allow yourself the grace to do so.

Well the divorce laws suck, I remained married under false pretenses. All of what I earned since her affair should be mine. I know divorce laws were made by adulterers but it's still unfair to me.

[This message edited by 40kSpaceMarine at 10:57 PM, Saturday, June 10th]

Imagine you divorce a cheater and they go on to get "remarried" (lol) with YOUR money. It's a joke, any whore or pig who does that is scum who deserves the rope

I was robbed of years of my life I should never ever have to pay or give up anything.

Also just because it's a law doesn't mean it's good, like no fault divorce. You know you used to be allowed to keep people as slaves and it was perfectly legal right? And you were allowed to go after them and kill them until the 60s? Perfectly legal. Doesn't mean it's good.

Unless your plan is to somehow overturn these laws you’re gonna have to start playing with the hand you’re dealt.

Get legal advice. Follow said legal advice even if it isn’t fair. Trying to force what’s "fair" now will only cause you to lose more in the future.

Oh I know. I'm just saying it's unfair, and if my wife was truly remorseful, she'd give me whatever I want. Especially because she won't be needing a lot of money

[This message edited by 40kSpaceMarine at 1:12 AM, Sunday, June 11th]

40kSpaceMarine, you have a pm

I remember going through this rage phase spending long nights staring at the ceiling tripping on the injustice of it all, sadistically imagining the AP stumbling out of my former bedroom, past my kid’s bedrooms, down the stairs of my former house, late at night, on his way to my former kitchen, to rehydrate himself from the well stocked fridge of beer funded with my child support and alimony payments, while I waste away in a tenement on a subsistence existence, trying to squeeze out 8 more years on the job due to belayed retirement compensating for what I lost In settlement, but…

that shit was getting me, NOWHERE. Unbridled anger, blind rage, wallowing was only digging me deeper into a pathetic and paralyzing state of despair.

Once this phase washes over you-and it will, by degrees, to a point where you will think clearly again, act decisively, and you will begin to move forward, actually thrive and, it can be a beautiful thing.

I am a man of modest means, a public servant, a hefty mortgage, not all-that in the looks and intelligence department, but what I do have in my favor is, is the unique appreciation of the fleeting nature of time, OF LIFE.

I divorced. It actually wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. The system is fair, as it realistically can be, in the division of a lifetime of assets and debt. No, it does not consider intangibles and subjective idealisms such as marital treason, it’s coldly pragmatic and, efficient, and I am glad for that because, we wasted no more precious time than necessary to get on with our new lives.

And Brother, my new life is fantastic. I am so glad I didn’t waste a petty moment fighting over the damned espresso machine or, fighting for some unachievable sense of "justice".

If I had done so, I would not have met the beautiful woman I am currently with. The woman I wish I had met 25 years ago. I would not be where I am now, knowing what I know now, appreciating what I do now. My new life is a renaissance overshadowing my former life and, if I was seeking revenge, I could think of no sweeter, just and absolute redress.

"when death is a heartbeat away then life becomes unbearably desirable. And when you survive, everything you do will be enhanced and filled with greater joy"

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 8:46 PM, Sunday, June 11th]

The following is a passage I removed from a discussion long gone on the boards here. I thought of you might could use it…..

INTEGRITY

Copy of post from another’s post on 3/26/19

The unfairest part of this journey is where my W got to grow and be the person she is today. I felt that she benefited from my pain. I paid and she reaped the benefits. It felt like being a good person all along was not worth it. Why do I have to be the one to be the bigger person all of the time? When can I be the selfish asshole who is blissfully unaware of the destruction I cause when pursuing my own desires ? Why be better ? Why have integrity? Integrity and a dollar will buy you a coke.

Integrity seems to be a thing that is manufactured to be a thing. What is it really ? A thing we made up to make ourselves feel better? Why not be a bad guy and live my life of selfishness ? Those guys seem to have a lot more fun and reap the benefits. Karma ? What karma? Bad things still happen to me. Reconciliation benefits my family. Fine. When do I get to fall apart and grow at someone else’s expense? When is it my time ? Living a good and moral life seems to beget nothing but misery. In the end the misery is what stands out.
Why be a good person if all it gains you is a guaranteed life of being shit upon? I am angry today. I feel that I keep telling myself things that life experience tells me is false. I see the data and it causes a crisis of conscience. Bad people do get ahead. Good things happen to bad people. People who try do right still lose. Nice guys finish last.

I sit on the sidelines and see the world as givers and takers. The takers end up will all the givers are willing to give. What do the givers end up with ? Being taken advantage of that is all. I feel like a sucker that is stuck on a hamster wheel that I can never leave until I die.
I am angry today. I see too many people willing to do and say things that aren’t in line with what I see as integrity. Maybe having a no character means you life a very happy life because you don’t care who you step on to get what you want. As long as you get everything you want you end up happy with no regret.
I am angry today. The injustice of this world, and in mine, is too much to take on some days. I look back and see that I did right, but what I missed out on seems preferable to what I see before me today. Life is a bitch and then you die.
I only see the world as a very bad place today. I am beside my self with the injustice of being a good person. Rather the prison of being a good person. I want to be a bad guy for once. I want someone else to take their turn paying the price.
_______________________________________________
That is from my journal on this day in 2012 or 2013 not sure. I read that today because today is, "one of those days." I post this to remember how far I’ve come.
The weird thing about healing is that sometimes you have to let these thoughts into your consciousness. You can’t hold this crap in your head alone. It demands an audience. It has to be expressed to someone who hears it. You let the demons out and look at them with brutally honest eyes. It is painful. Strike that. Painful doesn’t work. Soul searingly maddening. . .no . . .let’s just say there aren’t the exact word to describe it.
If you are a BS you are likely nodding your head right now. It doesn’t go away on its own. Any WS reading this should take note . . .does this sound like a guy that will one day be happy ? It takes time and communication. Even if your BS is stating things like this they are talking to you and it is not the words of someone who is ready to give up. Anger and hate are not the opposite of love. Indifference is. Once they stop expressing these feelings to you that is when you should worry. This is not being dramatic and it is a very serious thing that your BS is telling you. Underneath they want the validation that they not paying the price in vain. Respect that. Acknowledge that cost. It is real and it is truly only paid once grace enters the picture.
Grace is a very, very precious commodity. It is rarer than the most precious substance on earth. Is the output of thousands of outburst like this and the more you listen and validate your BS the closer they move towards letting go of your past choices. Anger needs a target and honestly this anger is really all about you. It is safer to speak in vague terms about the "world" at large sometimes. In their expression lies that fact that they use the world as proxy because they still feel they love you. Nothing about reconciliation make logical sense because most of it is based on feelings. In a purely logical sense all feelings are irrational. Second chances are illogical too. You aren’t going to win any argument with someone who is expressing their feelings. To them they are true and you get further towards that goal by listening and accepting them as valid. You will never talk someone out of feeling betrayed or traumatized. Go with it versus argue with it. You can't have an argument if you validate them.
The thing that matters to me and my honest assessment of healing is that I can look back and see that I did most of it right. I see that the choices I made benefited me by helping me achieve what I want out of life. No, nothing is perfect and life kicks you in the nuts sometimes. Looking back you don’t always remember those times as painful, but you see that you’ve grown, learned and avoid the mistakes of the past. It is tremendously beneficial to accumulate the knowledge that helps you avoid future pain. I always tell people in R to look forward, but looking back sometimes reinforces the insight and the wisdom you've gained. Make no mistake it is gained at a cost. The things that have a higher cost also usually have a higher value. Again, make no mistake that R has a cost for any BS agreeing to it.
Injustice is remedied by grace. Being a giving person allows you an unending supply of self validation. No one can take advantage of generosity if it’s intentions are pure. Relationships sometimes need to be completely destroyed before they can be rebuilt in a way that makes you happier that you thought possible. Honesty and communication are the materials you need to construct Marriage 2.0.
Today the only thing I have lost is the pain. I retained the lessons purchased by that pain. It is not something I will ever willingly endure again. However I did not really have a choice to begin with.
I wish all of you the best of everything always. I hope you all heal a little more today and than a year from now you are proud of how far you've come.
It is so, so worth it