SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dear all, thanks in advance for reading. It may be long.
Really struggling here.
Together 10 years, married for 2.5 years. 2 young children.
I have had a gut feeling for a good few months and the red flags as below:
dismissive towards me
critical
keep pointing out the bad things in our marriage
very distant
acting 'differently'
secretive with phone carrying everywhere
changed pin on phone
see a surname texting on the phone that I don’t recognise. We don’t know anyone with this name
texting in early hours of the morning
swipe out of texts when I walk by and delete recent calls
gym everyday
new clothes/makeup/skin care
going out a lot more with friends she never used to see that much

last month, I found out she wasn’t out with the friend she said she was with
her story didn’t add up, was very evasive about the evening and seemed coy
it was a trip to the cinema but took 2 hours to get ready - dressed up/false eyelashes
when confronted she said that she was with another friend and didn’t tell me as I don’t like this friend
strangely she was apparently with this friend the Friday before, 2 weeks in a row is very unusual
she became very angry, no empathy towards me pointing out faults in the marriage and even going on to say I want to go out with my friends, go on a yoga retreat and I'm finding myself

a few days later we had another argument - doesn't know if she can be in the marriage, talked of splitting assets and even mentioned blended families
again very angry towards me

final straw is last week, she is talking to a strange man in a darkened room. This is during the children's dinner time.
I heard his voice he swore, it sounded quite heated she looked flustered. Sounded like he was maybe pushing her.
Possibly giving her an ultimatum or wants to see her more?
It must have been urgent or she wouldn’t have taken the call so blatantly.
Straight after she calls her mum.
Once finished speaking with her mum I asked who she was talking to? None of your business, nothing for you to worry about. I said it is you are speaking to a strange man in our house during dinner time?!
Again got angry. Said I was being obsessive and said I've told my mum you want to go down my phone. I don’t but when she was not with the friend she said she was I said show me your phone then
Anyway she walks out the room and that is it. I didn’t push it as was getting heated and the kids were around.
This incident has not been mentioned since, not even to try and reassure me.

I cant confront again. She will just fly off the handle and say its all me, I'm crazy etc. I have no evidence

She is acting the perfect mum and speaking to my family getting days out booked etc. WTF?!
With me she is still acting affectionate

I spoke to a lawyer yesterday. She said it sounds like gaslighting.

Finally she comes home from work this week and mentions a work conference overseas for a whole week later this year. She will be away for my birthday.
She has a new job but has never gone away with work in the last 10 years.

I'm really struggling mentally, cant eat or concentrate or stop thinking about it.

I need some guidance on what to do next? Especially from a female POV.

It’s the kids I am worried about. They would never believe their mum could do that and like I say I have no proof.
They are so young still.
She will never admit it to me.
Without sounding too sorry for myself, I just still cant believe that she would do this to the family and destroy our homelife?!
I may be still in shock. Feeling weak.

Is evidence gathering the next way to go? I just don't think I can stand back and wait. It's driving me mad. Home life is so awkward and exhausting having to put on a brave face. But again I'm so worried about the children and what happens to them.
Or a bold it's me or him and walk out for the night? You have until tomorrow to decide and tell me the whole truth.

Thanks all, appreciate you reading x

Read the "Women’s Infidelity: Living In Limbo" books by Michele Langely. You can download them from a website she has.

Described my WW to a "T". Maybe yours, too.

It’s not good news. Sorry.

So sorry you had reason to find this site. Visit the Healing Library, pay particular attention to the simplified 180. Also read the pinned posts at the top of this forum.

If you need evidence check the phone bill, bank and credit card statements. Consider putting a voice activated recorder in her car or wherever in the house she likes to speak on phone. If you have the means a private investigator can yield results quickly if you know what her windows of opportunity are. New job, probably a coworker.

But all of that will just get you details. You know what’s going on, she’s checking every box on the list. The point of this site is get out of infidelity. So concentrate on that. Until she admits to cheating and commits fully to reconciliation and the marriage you have little to work with. Read and execute the 180. Follow your lawyer’s advice. Start separating finances.

In short, start moving forward out of infidelity. If she pulls her head out of her ass and starts to follow then you can decide if there’s anything left to save.

Thanks both for your comments.

Any ideas on what to actually to take as the next steps? I know the 180 but feel it's not the time for that yet and I'm not in a good headspace.

I know, but having to live with the fact of no admission is making it hard.

As mentioned we have two young children to look after.

I can't just stand by and watch this go on. It's like living with a stranger.

She has mentioned MC, is that a good idea or a good place to raise it with a neutral party?

MC is disfavored as a first step by most on this site.

She’s not cheating because of problems in your marriage; she’s cheating because of problems she has. And she needs to fix herself before your marriage can be fixed.

Maybe hire a PI?

Welcome to SI and I'm sorry that you're here. There are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read, as well as the ones with the bull's eye icons. Good ones include the Before You Say Reconcile - Recover and Consequences 101. The Healing Library is at the top of the page.

WS (wayward spouses) can't post in JFO (Just Found Out), as it is a guideline violation. There is a thread in the ICR (I Can Relate Forum) where you can ask questions of waywards. If your wife is cheating (and it sounds like she is), then it may help you to know that her thought process is disordered. She isn't thinking like you are and considering any consequences. WS are very self-centered and selfish.

If you can, IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist may be helpful. The issues with concentration, eating, sleeping can be contributed to betrayal trauma. Some members have PTSD, so this isn't some "silly" thing and you aren't making up your symptoms. If you're having issues, please see a doctor for some meds to help you through the initial phase. Also, if she's been sleeping with somebody, you'll also want to get checked for STDs/STIs as there are some nasty diseases out there.

Does your phone carrier have a list of phone numbers and the dates/times of calls & texts? Maybe start there. Or flat out ask for her phone and take a look at messages/history. Another option is to hire a PI.

Besel van der Kolk has a book The Body Keeps Score. It isn't infidelity related, but is about trauma and processing it out of your body. You may want to give it a try.

I know the 180 but feel it's not the time for that yet and I'm not in a good headspace.

The purpose of the 180 is get you into a good headspace, to provide some emotional stability so you can focus on yourself and your children. If you’ve come across it in other places you may be under the impression that it’s to snap your WW out of her affair. It can sometimes contribute to that effect but that’s not its primary function.

She has mentioned MC, is that a good idea or a good place to raise it with a neutral party?

MC is fairly useless when dealing with a wayward actively engaged in an affair, or even soon after. The marriage isn’t cheating, she is. And she has little interest in being honest with the counselor, you, or even herself right now. Many MC’s lack the tools to deal with infidelity. They often subscribe to the unmet needs model where blame is shifted to the betrayed and rugsweeping is often advocated. They prefer to find fault with both parties but that’s hard to do when the betrayed won’t stop going on about the knife in their back and bleeding all over the damn place.

Better you get support from a therapist who is familiar with betrayal trauma. If your WW ends her affair she would benefit from IC to find out what’s broken inside her. MC is for down the road. All counselors should be closely vetted on their views on infidelity.

I am sorry friend but you are married to the Evil Shrew-Lady. All the reasoning and pleading with her will not work. She KNOWS she is treating you awfully and simply does not care. She is a parasite upon you and your family, someone you have to protect them from.

Meanwhile you don't have to have hard evidence of infidelity, the way she disrespects you should be MORE than enough. I'd see a lawyer with the evidence that you have; and meanwhile keep documenting as you have done here in this post.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 11:28 PM, Thursday, January 16th]

Look at your phone bill. If she’s talking or texting a number often, it will appear in your bill.

If she’s using an app like WhatsApp it won’t appear on your bill.

You don’t actually need proof. This is the thing betrayeds don’t understand. You don’t need to catch her in the act. You can tell her you don’t like her behavior lately, she’s lying by omission in not telling you who she is talking to, she’s having secretive conversations and it is not acceptable.

Of course she will demand proof. She will challenge you. It’s all part of the cheaters behavior to gaslight, deflect, attack etc. Your response should be that you don’t need to prove anything to her and she knows she’s being dishonest and lying and cheating.

Read up on the 180. Institute some boundaries to protect yourself. You can tell her she’s free to do whatever she chooses, but you don’t tolerate lying and cheating. Tell her to move into a separate bedroom if you want to.

I hope this helps you.

I add a vote for hiring a PI. Have them ready next time she does a night out. She

Also placing a Voice Activated Recorder under the seat in the car and in the room she takes calls

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:20 AM, Friday, January 17th]

Like others have said this is a classic example of a wife who has checked out of her marriage.The disrespect,entitlement and I don’t give a shit what you think attitude all adds up.The constant sneaky texting and late night calls going out with "friends " and going to the gym constantly.This was my wife to a tee ,needless to say I didn’t spot everything quick enough,blamed things on her being stressed from work.When everything blew up on D day it literally knocked me on the floor I thought I was about to die.Tried saving our marriage and 37 years together with no help from her,she was already checked out.Within 2 months she was moved out and living with her AP leaving me and our 14 year old daughter at the time.At the moment I’m going through divorce just trying to get my life in order and trying to keep my sanity for the sake of our daughter. I hope your wife isn’t cheating on you but everything that you describe about her is a dead ringer. I’m sorry that you have to go through this,stay strong my friend.

For the record my H exhibited NO signs of cheating until he came home very late one night and I knew something was off.

So I asked him where he had been and he admitted that he was w/ the OW.

Had NO IDEA he was planning to D me either.

Blindsided.

Thereafter I witnessed the typical cheater behavior. Sadly in this case dazedandconfused, they are exactly what you described here.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:06 PM, Friday, January 17th]

Since her planned trip is during your birthday week, propose to her that you go on the trip with her. You could leave the kids with grandma (if she agrees) and have romantic evenings together.

But if she gets really aggressive at the suggestion or calls you controlling, then it's another red flag.

Thanks all for your replies. It means a lot. This site is a great help.

On the positive I slept last night and appetite is slowing coming back. Emotions all over the place though, one minute feeling strong the next breaking down.

I have been going through old text and calendars and some things don’t add up. No proof though. I have a feeling it’s been going on longer than I thought. A weekend away with a friend I have never met, didn’t hardly talk about the trip. It’s an old work colleague, I don’t think they are close enough to go away for three nights.

This to me now feels more serious than I first thought. Especially the way she has treated me over the past months-angry, roll eyes, distant, dismissive, critical. FFS we have had family holidays and I fear this was all going on then.

I mean what’s the end game here?!
We have a life, children, mortgage. Kids birthdays coming up.
Is she thinking about leaving me for him?
The call they had sounded heated, he was pushing more aggressive than her.
Maybe an ultimatum?

So now need to confront right? Not sure I can take anymore.

Is there a script to follow?

But I know what will happen-anger,denial,deflection. No doubt tell kids/her family that I’m accusing. Nobody would believe it

No thoughts about hiring a PI or placing a recorder in her car or the room she takes calls?

If you still want details, put VAR’s in place before you confront. Confrontation often prompts calls with the AP or confidants. It may be helpful to know if any mutual "friends" were aware.

I have a suggestion for a very simple test.

Ask her to borrow her phone. Tell her yours is dead and you just want to check something (sports score, weather, bank balance). Something innocent enough.

If she will not immediately hand you the phone, she has something to hide.

It’s that simple.

BTW these "weekend away" scenarios are very suspicious. Especially the ones where she didn’t come home and talk about the time away.

Her deviating from her normal behavior is suspicious. My wife went on a trip and took no pictures. This from a woman who is always taking pictures on trips. I also saw in increase in selfies on her camera roll during the affair. She hadn’t been big on them prior to the affair. If you want more evidence, gathering it before confronting is a wise idea. Once you confront they will be more careful and it will be more difficult to find stuff out. If she went in another room to talk when you could hear, they are being sloppy. Use the sloppiness to your advantage.

There is a lot of talk about cheating altering brain chemistry.

Some of your wife’s behavior will be incomprehensible. You’re going to think she’s lost her mind, and to some extent, that may be true.

You may find yourself dealing with a "new" person; someone you don’t know.

If you want to keep your marriage, for kids or whatever, start reading the reconciliation advice.

But you can’t begin to deal with this until she admits it is happening.

I’m so sorry you had to find us. We all know how traumatizing and disorienting it is to find your entire reality changed in a heartbeat.

Friend, you don’t have any idea what your WS is bringing into you and your kids lives right now. You’ve already begun to put the pieces together and realize it’s been going on for longer than you first thought. Trust all of us here, there is a lot more difficult reality coming. As you begin to piece things together, you may find much much more. Some of us have discovered that our spouses have been betraying us for years.

As others have said, you should gather more information before confronting. If you don’t, she will just keep stonewalling you while proceeding to destroy all evidence that she can. You should back off, try to act normal, and go into detective mode to, as others have suggested, check her phone calls/text messages, put VARs in place if possible, and/or hire a PI.

Do you have any idea who he is? If not, it’s important to know. Is he married? If so, notifying the other betrayed spouse might help you get more information. It might also distract him from you WS and end the A—which wouldn’t solve your problem, but it would allow you to start dealing with the fallout without a third party in the middle of your life. Either way, if he is married, his BS has a right to know the truth of her marriage just like you do.

If you confront now, she’s going to continue to make you look like the bad guy. She’s going to make you doubt yourself and make you feel crazy. In short, she’s going to gaslight you like crazy.

You should look into counseling for yourself, and yes, start the 180 to help you get yourself together, focus on your kids and yourself, and leave her to her own mess without having you to blame and get angry at. You will miss the opportunity to know more of the whole truth if you confront too early and she has time to cover her tracks.

Your wife is getting yelled at by another man in your house, with you and your kids around. She is not showing any signs right now of giving 2 shits if you’re upset, devastated, suspicious or anything else. She isn’t thinking about you at all. She is showing you utter disrespect and contempt. You need to take care of yourself and the kids. And you need to get your own information about the truth of your marriage because it is not going to come from your wife right now.

It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets any better, my friend. Take care of yourself and your kids. Try to eat, stay hydrated, and get any support you can. The only way forward is through. We are here for you.