SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ugh I meant to post in the last thing that I have to confront him because it's clear there's something wrong with me and I can't keep it up, and I can honestly tell my H during the confrontation that I spoke with attorneys and he doesn't have to know it was by phone and I haven't retained anyone officially. Also I can't take the tension anymore, I have to know what his reaction will be. I've had so many conversations with him in my head, arguing with him when I'm alone in the car, reacting to all of the things I imagine he might say. I really need to hear what he says. Look him in the eyes when he says it.

I could use all of the good vibes anyone has for tomorrow, and I need to focus on being strong, remembering the big picture, not getting too mired in details and shielding my "sources" such as they are (the OW mostly) and not sharing any details I have with him unless I absolutely need to, to verify that I am not bluffing, and even then only the bare minimum. Please send strength and courage my way if you have any to spare.

You're doing really well. The shock comes in waves, or it did for me. Understanding what happened but not always grasping the enormity of what it meant for my life as a whole. I agree with you and others here; there is no loophole here. He is fundamentally broken and I don't know how you could ever cultivate a future with him with full comfort.

I also agree that he probably has some personality disorder to be able to act so sincerely. He probably DOES truly love you, but to love you and have no remorse or conscience for all of this, well, that's not someone you want to grow old with.

I'm really sorry you're going through this, and I'm glad you have your sister.

I am on the other side; 3.5 years out from leaving him. I promise it's SO MUCH BETTER on the other side. But getting here is hell, I know.

I’m so sorry. Sending strength your way. You are doing great.

((Hugs)) Sigyn.

[This message edited by Beachgirl73 at 7:33 PM, Tuesday, August 23rd]

Condonation is a term I'd never heard before my own fWH went live and in-person during a nearly year-long Craigslist binge. What it means is that we have "condoned" our WS's cheating by engaging in certain behaviors which suggest forgiveness. Sleeping with him when you know he's been cheating would be one of those behaviors. Now, people don't tend to use adultery as grounds these days as they have in the past, but if settlement issues become difficult, it's a pretty good card to have in your deck if your state allows for fault. I would suggest you look it up online to see if you're in a no-fault state or not and what (if any) benefits might be had in going that route. If fault is allowed in your jurisdiction, say nothing about when you discovered the adultery, Your methods, means, timing, are not the issue. The fact is that you know. Don't answer questions and don't say a word which will allow him to claim condonation in court.

In the meantime, chances are that the confrontation will go as expected. That said, you can't be too careful. Put a few things in a bag and money in your car and keep your keys in your pocket in case things get heated. Don't hesitate to call 911 if he becomes combative. Don't fill in gaps in the conversation. Long, uncomfortable silences will invite him to babble. If you're in a one-party state, record the meeting with your phone. If you're worried about a violent outburst, record it no matter what state you're in. It's NOT your job to prove what you know. This isn't a court of law and his innocence is not presumed. The real question isn't whether you've caught him red-handed. It's whether this marriage is acceptable to you or not.

As a serial cheater, there's not a good prognosis. That said, it's not impossible either. It all comes down to what this guy is willing TO DO to remediate his poor character. I do believe that people can change. But they've got to want it more than anything else. Whining about sex addictions, FOO issues, mid-life crisis, or what-have-you doesn't fix it. What fixes it is digging down deep into one's values system and getting really honest about our beliefs. We protect what we value. This guy doesn't value honesty and he doesn't value fidelity. If he did, he'd have boundaries surrounding those values and he demonstrably does NOT. It's a fundamental shift which affects every other aspect of a person's internal view, and it's not as easy as it sounds to really change.

The bottom line though is that your story is still in motion. There's not great hope for marital recovery, but that's not to say there's no hope at all. We'll be thinking of you.

((hugs))

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:04 PM, Tuesday, August 23rd]

Really good advice, thank you!!

I'm adding recording to my list - I'm going to record just for myself, not for any legal reasons, because when I get really upset I lose all the details. I can't imagine the stomach to relisten, but I have no idea what details I'll want or need later.

We also have an apartment built over our garage, it's detached and set back on our property and I've already decided H is going to stay there after our talk. Both attorneys said not to move out, I assume that H also knows this and would not move out either, but it's all the same property and will give us each space.

It's great you have the room over the garage. Perfect.

You've gotten a ton of advice so I'll try not to add to it although I think recording is a good idea mainly for the reason you suggested ... in the heat of the moment you may miss some things.

Also, perhaps sketch out for yourself your key points. What exactly you plan on revealing (e.g. I know about the escorts and LTAPs), what steps you've already taken (e.g. I've consulted with an attorney) and what the next steps are for you (e.g. his moving to the apartment). Also any questions you want to ask. My favorite on Dday was "what exactly was your plan?"

I've read others say having something in writing in front of them helped to keep them on course and not divulge too much.

I also 1000 percent agree with controlled silence. Not that you should be a stone wall but you can learn an awful lot by just listening. Don't fill all of the silent gaps.

Having said all of that, go easy on yourself. This is a major life event right up there with death of a loved one. That you have contained yourself so far is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! Things won't go perfectly to plan but that's no matter. This is life and it's messy and fucked up and this isn't going to be easy. You've done your prep. Trust yourself and do your best.

Sending positive vibes for your strength!!

Glad to read your last update re the apartment. I was going to recommend a few things, one that you don't spend too much time explaining yourself or divulging what you know. You only need to tell him you know, that you need time to process this as you are still in shock, but he is a stranger and a danger to you and you need space.

If he wants to offer explanations or excuses, let him if you want. But encourage him to put his thoughts in writing for clarity and because it is so hard to listen and recall when you are in shock. In our early discussions, there were things he admitted that sent me into emotional overload and i can't even tell you what either of us said in the aftershocks, only how it felt and it was awful. My stomach is in knots for you.

You don't have to decide or do anything yet, you just need to focus on the confrontation of disclosure. Do take the advice to talk slowly and talk less than you listen. I always seemed to interrupt with an inconsistency or contradiction I'd been given and that derailed and escalated his emotions. My H never got violent but he yelled and threw things and it terrified me.

Remember the brain does fight, flight or freeze and you may have more than one response at once. Also, don't apologize or excuse what we call hysterical bonding in the aftermath. I wanted my H so much more, I needed him like never before after DDay one, and I know now I was operating on a lot of levels: love, lust, reclaiming my sexuality and my territory, and just seeking comfort of a moment that was physical and not mental or emotional. Don't judge yourself for anything you do in the wake of your reality coming to pieces.

Maybe that's all you need to say to him, that you are only certain that your marriage is a sham, you know he has been unfaithful, he is a broken person who is living a lie and needs to get a lot of help before you will trust yourself to share anything beyond parenting with him right now. Give him a chance to lie to you by not saying how much you know. He may suspect the OW who contacted you and may gamble that you don't know about the others. I wish I couldn't bet that he will lie, or at least minimize or leave out details you know to be true, but it is so common here the rarity is an honest confession. This is why we all say never reveal your sources or what you know. If he continues to lie at confrontation you know you are not safe because he can't be trusted with honesty. The disrespect of the lies I allowed my WH to tell throughout my two years of discovery still stings, because I allowed him to convince me that things were not as they seemed, and I kept offering my proof, to hear that's not what it looks like, you are mistaken, etc. etc. and I was so unprepared to be lied to my face that I doubted myself. Please don't doubt yourself, and don't second guess yourself and do not judge yourself for anything. You are entitled to every emotion that flows through you until you can process this shock and assimilate it into your reality.

I wish there were a way to help ease the stress of what you have coming. The best you can do for yourself is to rehearse a script that you want to say, and control your breathing. I found it very disconcerting to look into my WH's eyes because the loving eyes look like the cheating ones, I still can't tell them apart. I still love my WH even after all this, and wonder what is broken in me to let me continue to love and live with someone so broken. I still work to not judge myself for my choices the last five years. I just wish I had better advice sooner in the process, and you are way ahead of the game there.

Hugs to you. Please let us know how you are doing when you can. We'll be sending good vibes as hard as we can and cheering for you.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 7:46 PM, Tuesday, August 23rd]

I doubt he has a plan in place. Serial cheaters are pretty delusional and think they can get away with it forever and/or that they're such good partners we will ultimately forgive them and continue on with the marriage.

However, if he fears you're going to divorce him, low-integrity types, like your WH, are known to empty bank accounts and pull other financial stunts on the way out. Be sure you have a plan in place for yourself. Also, he may already have a hidden bank account or secret credit cards, that he uses to pay for escorts.

I was also married to a serial cheater. By the time I caught him he'd maxed out his personal credit cards and emptied his savings account. Fortunately, I didn't mix funds with him, but he didn't even have enough to pay first and last on an apartment, even with a good income. I had to find him a place to live when I kicked him out.

So buckle up and protect your financial interests. Guys like this can flip a switch and become absolutely evil once their double lives are discovered.

Try to keep your emotions out of the confrontation this will impact him more than you know.
Don't yell and scream, simply state the facts, and what you now expect from him.
Be precise, be calm, be direct.
Do not allow him to tap dance out of it, manipulate, gaslight.

Have a go to phrase ready, and when he tries to give excuses, or change the storyline, simply state that statement, and nothing else.

I know what you have done, I have proof. I am done. Please gather what you need and go to the garage.
It should be simple and you should use it as a mantra before then.

Try not to get too keyed up before hand by drinking a bunch of caffiene, but keep your cool. Empty stomach, and prepared. Knowing the doubts end after the confrontation, and the new plan that is yours starts.

Try to keep your emotions out of the confrontation this will impact him more than you know.
Don't yell and scream, simply state the facts, and what you now expect from him.
Be precise, be calm, be direct.
Do not allow him to tap dance out of it, manipulate, gaslight.

This is good advice from Tushnurse.

As soon as he senses if you are getting emotional over it, he will try to use that.

DO NOT accept ANY blame for ANY of his behavior - no matter how much he tries to blame you or the marriage.

It has nothing to do with you or your marriage - at all.

Accepting even an iota of blame will only encourage him to keep blaming you.

DO NOT reveal your source of proof - EVER.

I would not recommend telling him that you have not retained an attorney nor disclose names of attorneys and/or law firms you have consulted with until you have made a decision to have him served.

At this point, it’s none of his business.

One last thing....please do not ever tell your husband about this site.

It's your safe space.

Good luck, thinking about you this evening.

A huge virtual hug to you....(((((( )))))))

You have such a good plan in place!

Remember, tomorrow you are grey rock. You are stone. You are tough and impenetrable.

If he asks questions you don't want to answer, don't engage. Ignore them completely or say, "This isn't about me answering your questions." Then proceed with your talking points.

Keep it short and as unemotional as possible (you are grey rock).

Be ready to go behind a locked door and quit responding when you are finished. If needed, have someone trusted standing by (maybe prompted by a quick texted code word) if you need to extract him or yourself from the conversation.

Have a plan in place to comfort yourself afterwards.

Strength and hugs to you! You will be on my mind tomorrow.

I cringe to add this, but I cringe to not add this: Secure or hide guns, if you have any in the house--move them, change the combo on the safe, etc. Don't mention to him that you've done this.

I would only add that he knows you very well. He’s going to very badly want to uncover how much you know.

He’s had a lot of experience fighting/talking with you. We say here.. He knows how to push your buttons because he helped install them. Be very wary of him trying to bring about your anger, frustration, or….sympathy in order to derive information.

You have the proof and shoving it in his face would be very satisfying. However, you don’t know what you don’t know. It is better to leave him wondering about your evidence rather than exposing the extent of it.

Many of us can relate to looking for comfort from the very person who made your shared life a lie.

That’s why it’s good to remember while he was that thoughtful date night planner, he was also the guy who kept you in a prison of matrimonial fiction while he got his jolly’s… for decades.

Is that someone from who you can draw comfort….? The answer right now could be yes. In all honesty I think it’s because you haven’t fully assimilated who he was/is into your memories or experience. It is the fiction you long for because it was real for YOU.

Over time, all of the things he did will come into focus and be fitted into the tapestry of your life together in your mind. It’s a new realization after new realization.

For example I spent part of x weekend planning his 50th birthday party and he was texting his side piece about their favorite love song they’ll dance to.

Do not do yourself the disservice of turning away from these realizations because if you just love, hope and support him you’ll find that loophole to R.

You have in the past been unknowingly exposed to the history of all of his sex partners. Until you know you are safe, consider the risk analysis of comfort in the familiar versus your health.

I am another who believes that change can happen. Can he abandon his lifestyle of 20 years and put in years of work to make those changes? Only time and consistent humble effort on his part will tell.

As many have already said, speak less than you want too. Silence is a tool you can use.

You can do this. Sending you mojo and strength.

[This message edited by redrock at 3:39 AM, Wednesday, August 24th]

You’ve received a lot of great advice, just posting to say I’m thinking of you, genuinely thinking of you and hoping you feel supported by all of us here and your sister in real life. You can do this!

I'm at work and freaking out! I have so much tension I don't think I should have come in today.

I have notes and bullet points and THANK YOU all for such great advice. I'm taking all of it.

I know I can't script it, but I'm going to be open ended "I need you to tell me about your other life, with your other partners" - I wanted to say "other women" but my sister pointed out he might also have relationships with men? I don't want to be so specific that I rule out things that I don't know. Beyond that it's completely up to him how it goes.

What exactly you plan on revealing (e.g. I know about the escorts and LTAPs), what steps you've already taken (e.g. I've consulted with an attorney) and what the next steps are for you (e.g. his moving to the apartment). Also any questions you want to ask. My favorite on Dday was "what exactly was your plan?"

This is really succinct and it's pretty much my plan. I love the question. I hope to use silence as others have suggested and let him do the talking. I will ultimately tell him I know about the OW and the escorts whether he shares this with me or not. My goal is to get him to tell me WHY he did this, which is a pipe dream, but first the reality THAT he did it has to be on the table. I want him to tell me and I hope for enough self control to wait him out, but I'm prepared to prompt him to tell me about the escorts, or tell me about the woman in California, etc. I am also ready to tell him I have pictures but not show him, it would be clear who sent them to me.

Give him a chance to lie to you by not saying how much you know. He may suspect the OW who contacted you and may gamble that you don't know about the others.

I absolutely will do this. I mean I won't say how much I know. I actually don't know how much I know for real. It's entirely possible he'll tell me things I really don't know and I dread this. I'm prepared in some way to hear his voice tell me the things I already know. If he tells me more, it will be brand new information and I don't have any way of knowing how I'll react.

I won't tell him about this site, don't worry, but I will tell him my sister knows and that I've spoken with attorneys, because I want him to know I do have a support system in place and that there is a team of sorts that includes me but not him. I am not alone in this. He won't know that all of this advice from you guys is part of that team, but you all are.

I'm adding recording to my list - I'm going to record just for myself, not for any legal reasons, because when I get really upset I lose all the details. I can't imagine the stomach to relisten, but I have no idea what details I'll want or need later.

(((Sigyn)))
this is very very important! And not just because you can lose the details, but because cheaters lie and lie more when get pushed to the wall and face their brokenness. Later on (IF you have any conversations with WS in the future) he may say that he didn't say that, or you didn't understand him correctly (even though that was exactly what he said), or say one thing and later on, change the story, etc.

So sorry you found yourself in this place... Strength to you!

I don't want to be so specific that I rule out things that I don't know. Beyond that, it's completely up to him how it goes.

Try to catch him off guard for the conversation. In addition, after stating your request, ask immediately for his phone (and other devices if he uses them) and access to it if you don't already have this.

I wanted to add this - because I have not seen anyone really get into this - and this was my reality:

He may very well STONEWALL you. Meaning that aside from curt denials he may say next to nothing. So also be prepared for what you will do if he refuses to talk. This was was my WH's method for a LONG LONG LONG time. On D-day 1 I got about an hours worth of crying and lies from him and then mostly a blank stare-at-the-ground competition. In the weeks and months that followed he would consistently stonewall me, refusing to answer or say anything. He would listen to me for hours, but apparently that was all he was willing to do as sometimes he would say nothing - I mean nothing except "yes" or "no" for hours.

On D-day2 after a year of false R I flipped out and screamed and yelled my ass off in our car in the parking lot of the gas station by our house and he confessed to everything (there has been very little I found afterwards that did not match what he said that night - and I spent thousands of dollars having his phone and computer forensically analyzed) but after that flood of info - back to stonewalling. It was not until later - like over a year later - that he really started talking - answering the tough questions.

So be prepared for stonewalling - anger + silence - and think about how you will handle that. You should be prepared for your confrontation to be a short one and that all you end up doing is listing off things you need from him (and also be prepared to get none of them). But don't let his silence trick you into giving up the things you do not want to tell him. Feel free to scream and yell or whatever - it may happen and I think a BS losing it is more likely when stonewalled because at least to me the silence was just more disrespect and it angered the hell out of me.

I'm soooooooooooooo sorry you are going thought this - take tomorrow off if you plan on confronting tonight if you can. I should have done that and instead I almost destroyed my own career because I did not give myself the time I needed to even think straight.

EDIT: I'm not saying this WILL happen, but it could. I was not prepared to be dismissed like that. I thought he would scream and yell and beg or plead or whatever, but I was not prepared for the silent treatment so I wanted to give you a heads up as it is definitely possible.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:09 PM, Wednesday, August 24th]

1. Agree with TISL re STONEWALLING. Being there, done that too...

2.

You should be prepared for your confrontation to be a short one and that all you end up doing is listing off things you need from him (and also be prepared to get none of them).

Prepare a list of boundaries / YOUR needs in writing. Don't forget about No Contact notes to AP's if applicable.

You also can skim thru the book (available online for free to read) by Dr Dobson "Love must be tough" for some additional encouragement. I think there is a chapter on "Confronting" there.

Being married and claiming to be non-monogamous (behind the scenes ) is BS. These ppl even can't love just one person - THEMSELVES. They have soul and consciousness issues. They use their AP's as a sewer to dump all their shit onto them. The thing they can't openly do with their spouses. They're too weak to approach their spouses and say "I have a problem and need help."

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 4:01 PM, Wednesday, August 24th]