SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

To the WS....

How do YOU believe your spouse "really" sees you?

How did YOU believe they saw you in the immediate aftermath of Dday?

How/why did that change?

My reason for this question is learning that the wayward mindset is often filled with shame and guilt and brokenness....wondering how you cope with trying R with someone when YOU may not want R with yourself if the roles were reversed.

[This message edited by TrayDee at 2:12 AM, Monday, September 4th]

How do YOU believe your spouse "really" sees you?

How did YOU believe they saw you in the immediate aftermath of Dday?

How/why did that change?

I think no matter what, what we think others believe is a projection of how we feel about ourself.

If we don’t believe we are worthy of love then there is no infiltration of that belief.

If we love ourselves and believe we are worthy of love, we may believe our spouse sees us that way if there isn’t a lot of evidence to the contrary.

In the aftermath, I hated myself. I was the lowest of the low, undeserving.

Today, I love myself but with humility. Meaning I know I am not perfect but I am loveable and capable of inifinite love in return.

And I can tell you that the focus of my relationship with myself eventually changed every relationship I have- my friendships, my kids, my extended family and also my husband.

It’s definitely fix yourself and the rest will fall into place. So I am not sure it’s ever healthy to fixate in what others think of you. Focus on what you think of you and watch your interactions and beliefs improve over time.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:51 PM, Sunday, September 3rd]

Did you get into any fights about writing a timeline?

If so what were the fights about?

Was the timeline a one shot deal or did they request any additional changes?

Did anything good come out of writing it (for you? For your BS?)?

As a WS, were any of you ever asked to take a polygraph exam? What was your experience? ...your hesitancies or fears?

Some perspective -- my wife has trickled truth for years about 2 different relationships, to the point of losing all credibility when she says (as she's ALWAYS said), "That's everything, and NOW there's nothing more to tell." She openly admits to 14+ years of deception, and I've requested a polygraph. I feel that if she's now truly being 100% honest, then she should be ready and willing, but that's not the case. Can anyone add their experience?

WhiteCarrera

I will preface what I’m about to write with I have no experience with lie detectors and have never taken a test with one.

If you look at your question objectively, I think you have an answer. Perhaps not the one you want, but an answer nonetheless. As far as I know, lie detectors can only tell if you’re consciously being deceptive. Ergo if you believe in your heart that you’re telling the truth, the LD can sense that. IMO, her reluctance says she hasn’t been completely forthcoming.

Of course I can be completely off base but actions speak louder than words. If I understand your situation correctly, she’s been lying to you for over a decade. And now with her reluctance in taking the LD? Sounds like it still continues.

Replies permitted only from WSes.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:09 PM, Tuesday, September 12th]

ff - I agree. In one sense I feel like her reaction tells me everything that I need to know; but like you, I don’t have any real experience with polygraphs.

And gr8ful, concerning timelines, it seems like her timelines have always been accurate right up until they weren’t. That’s the place we’re at now. For the first time, she has actually asked for the polygraph, but she’s still setting the stage for dismissing the results. I’m hoping others can chime in with their experiences.

Question for WSs:

What was it that motivated you, or led to you from transforming into someone who "gets it"?

Sorry if this is too personal, please skip if so:

Did your mental health spiral after telling the full truth? For several weeks after D-day, I got a lighter version of the truth. Then one day, WH decided he could no longer lie and spilled his guts. Nothing exactly new, just how he was feeling during that time. He felt sick and a bit obsessed with waiting for her texts and whatnot. After that, he told me pretty much everything he’s ever done wrong his entire life and some past trauma that he’s never told a soul. Now, even when he thinks of something minor, he gets incredibly anxious and upset and needs to tell me immediately. He’s anxious pretty often now and used to be fairly mellow. I’ve known him over 20 years and have never seen him like this.

He is in trauma therapy now and getting help, just wondering if this is common.

Through WH IC we have been unpacking the "why". His affair was with a coworker. It was sporadic nude photos over a 6 month period followed by two sexual encounters which they both maintain did not fully occur due to my WH "freaking out".

He says he did not realize he was depressed as it wasn't something he had dealt with before. He never processed our daughters death and life with two young kids became overwhelming. He said he felt unneeded as I am such an independent person so when this AP started treating him like the knight in shining armor he would get a temporary high by the feeling of being needed. He also has a deep seated fear of saying no or causing conflict that seems to have contributed per his IC.

Is this considered a why? I keep seeing other BS on here say superficial reasons like this aren't a real why.

What was it that motivated you, or led to you from transforming into someone who "gets it"?

This is a profound question.

I can only say that it was pain. I was in so much pain so couldn’t stay where I was and I knew I had to figure out how a) I could find my way out and b)how to never go there again. It was rock bottom.

I also have to say that in spite of everything happening externally, I truly down deep loved and wanted my husband. I had disconnected from it in my brain through trying to justify my actions but that bond was there. Down deep I knew he really was the superior person for me to be with, the one that I needed and wanted.

I would say it was equal parts not wanting to easily give up on my marriage or myself. I changed because I had no choice. I wasn’t being true to myself or honoring myself in having and affair and the person I had become wasn’t who I wanted to be.

He says he did not realize he was depressed as it wasn't something he had dealt with before. He never processed our daughters death and life with two young kids became overwhelming. He said he felt unneeded as I am such an independent person so when this AP started treating him like the knight in shining armor he would get a temporary high by the feeling of being needed. He also has a deep seated fear of saying no or causing conflict that seems to have contributed per his IC.

So, I would say this is the start, but the earliest stages of what will need to build upon it.

I identify with it. I was depressed, had been having my own crisis, and know what kept me going back for more.

But to me the next layer of whys is recognizing the deeper parts that became the mechanics of the affair. For example, so felt I have so much during our marriage that I was owed something for just me. (When in reality my problem was I over gave in order to hustle to get love instead of doing things out of love.)

I made my happiness reliant on other people. And in many ways that’s what led me to the depression in the first place. I had poor understanding if what I needed. I had poor communication with him because I was the queen of burying it all as to not be an inconvenience for fear of loosing love.

Ws have to look at all their thoughts and behaviors. Most of us ws at our core carry this deep shame that kind of accumulated through our life. It really directs a lot of our beliefs and behaviors. It’s not surprising you will find that most ws have other addictions as well.

I am giving examples of this but it’s hard to dig for another person. What you are saying is absolutely foundational and I wouldn’t call it off track but I am assuming you are somewhere in the middle of the first year. If this is all he has after a much longer time than that, I think that would be too shallow of an understanding.

Thanks hikingout, we are a year out from DDay and 2 years out from the end of the affair.

It appears to be a sporadic affair. She initially sent him some topless photos, which the first time he told her was inappropriate and not to send more (I saw the texts provided by OBS) and then he ignored the next couple. He ended up sending a couple a few months later, then shortly after once again texted her asking her to leave him alone. It was about 2 months later the sexual encounter was attempted. He texted her after and told her to never come near him again and she laughed and told him his equipment was defective anyways.

He describes deep self loathing while in the affair. He buried emotions and feelings deep, struggles to say what he feels as he can't find correct words. His IC feels it is a combo of years of being a people pleaser, conflict avoidant, and submissive. This AP presented him with an opportunity to feel in charge and desired. Something he has always been too fearful to accomplish on his own.

I can see merit to everything said but since I myself am very different I struggle to understand.

Okay in that last post you unveiled more of what I would want to see- avoidant people pleaser. That’s me too.

I think it sounds like he did dig and does understand now he is at a point where he should be practicing different behaviors. It took me years to get better at boundaries, speaking up, and having uncomfortable conversations. Do you see him working to change the whys and how’s? It does sound like he sufficiently came to some conclusions, now it’s a matter of changing them so he doesn’t come to that crossroads again.

At two years out it’s natural that you don’t trust yet or have not yet integrated everything to a place you are in peace. But is he working hard on what he has learned and is he trying to help you? What are his behaviors like now?

He can definitely voice how he has behaved and the personality traits that contributed.

He worked with the AP and quit that job before the affair was revealed and started a new one. At his old job he was fearful and degraded by his boss but this is a better environment. He has let his boss know when he is uncomfortable with doing something or if a new hire isn't a good fit. That is new behavior. He is also better that taking charge of the kids behavior and following through.

As for how he is with me, he is better at saying something he is thinking randomly, always asks how I feel, and has taken me aside on family outings and told me he saw "sadness go across my face" and do I need to talk.

He has definitely dropped the ball here and there but I don't believe it's fair to expect perfection from someone so broken for so long.

At the end of the day, you are the one who will know best. You live with him and know him on a deeper level than anyone else even if it feels like you do not after what he has done.

It sounds like there is effort there, and that is positive. I know it’s hard but it might be best to focus your attention on you. What you need, what healing might mean to you. It takes years to get past this place and I think the second year is probably worse in some ways than the first. Do you feel you can talk to him on days when you are struggling? Does he bottle up or work to help you?

All I can say is it’s not abnormal not to be past it, this takes 2-5 years to heal from. Speaking as someone 6 years out, it is just so gradual because you have to release so many big and small things and certain ones take longer than others. Focus on you and loving yourself and making sure you are taking care of what you need. I don’t know the individual struggles that you have posted because I am not on enough, but from what you have written here it just sounds like you are on the messy course that’s to be expected.

For WSs: with the wisdom of hindsight, what was the worst part of this for YOU

To WS...
I recently confronted my WH of his A. When he talked to others about the situation previously he admitted to them I have done nothing wrong that it is him and I'm the love of his life. When WH talks to me it's completely different. No remorse, blames me and takes no accountability. I've told him repeatedly where I stand and my commitment to him and wanting to work things out. Each time I've tried to have the discussion he puts up a wall and refuses to talk. Our most recent conversation, I told him I know what he's doing and asked him what he wants. He tells me he loves how we were and that he loves her. I told him that's fine and if that's what he wants he needs to file but that's not what I want so I'm not going to take action. He hasn't taken any action yet, continues to wear his wedding ring and sleeps in the same bed. I find this behavior very odd and trying to figure out what this means. Is it that he's in denial and doesn't know what he wants? Does anyone have any experience with my situation. I'm just looking for guidance. Thanks!

MCC

For WSs: with the wisdom of hindsight, what was the worst part of this for YOU

That’s a tough one. If we are speaking strictly as to how I was impacted, I would have to say finally understanding that I wasn’t the person I thought I was. I never really examined who I was and how my actions impacted others. I always thought of myself above cheating. I really felt that I was a nice guy and only assholes and lowlifes cheated. Well I found out the hard way that wasn’t true.

For WSs: with the wisdom of hindsight, what was the worst part of this for YOU

MCC:

Besides the grievous emotional harm I did to my W, the worst part for me came from the reckoning I forced myself to perform-- i.e., documenting ALL the times I had cheated on SO's and others with whom I supposedly had committed relationships. I hadn't realized what a master compartmentalizer I was. When I broke down all those compartments and lined up all the occasions and documented them, it really shocked me.

I always blithely assumed I was basically an OK person who, when I went astray, had Reasons, plus all kinds of other justifications. Not so, not ever so. I was never a safe partner. Of course I cannot undo any of that. All I can do is be a safe partner going forward. But it just feels like too little too late, and there is no remedy for the disgust I have for myself.