SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

To preface the infidelity, a brief overview of the relationship:

When we met, me 29M, her 20F. Now 38M/28F

11/2014 - I "saved" my ex from a broken living situation. Her ex had just died a month before we met, she had nothing, was in a terrible living situation, in hindsight I should have avoided that like the plague, but I chose to "save" her. She moved 100 miles away to be with me, and I became her sole support structure in life, she didn’t make many friends and relied on me 100% for her support needs, emotionally, sexually, intellectually, etc.

At the same time, I myself had been struggling with abandonment issues from my parents getting divorced when I was 8. I had a repeating cycle through my high school/college relationship days where I would get really close to someone, then back way off and lie and sometimes cheat (although I stopped cheating after high school) Through therapy, I found that I would always get really close, and then emotionally distance myself in relationships, basically with the subconscious thought of "they are just going to abandon me eventually anyways so I can’t get too close". I had done a lot of work on this prior to meeting her and figured it was all sorted out, as the first 3-4 years were great and I had no distancing/self-sabotage issues at all.

Around year 4, without really noticing, I started to do it again. Sex went from 5 times a week to once a week or maybe even once every 2 weeks. She noticed and spoke up but we both chalked it up to work stress and the like.

Year 6 and 7 it went to a few times a month, but still with her always bending over backwards telling me she understood I was stressed and had body image issues etc. ( I had gained 70lbs).

Year 8 (this last year) it got to the point where we didn’t have sex for the last 6 months leading up to her affair, January to June, nor did we cuddle or even kiss more than a peck, all chalked up to my body image issues and work stress. This is where is gets hard to NOT blame myself in part for what happened. She would even try and put on sexy lingerie for me and I would barely look up from my phone and say "that looks cute" before going to sleep.

During this time she was also doing all the cleaning and cooking while working 10-12 hour days while I worked 8 hour days. I have to admit it and it hurts like hell to say, but when I heard her tell AP on the dash cam audio "he’s just a bad roommate basically", she was absolutely right.

I had been emotionally and sexually neglecting her for at least 6 months. That is all on me. That being said, I know that is NOT a reason for the following.

8/1/22, everything was seemingly "fine" in the marriage (in hindsight it was obviously not since we hadn’t had sex in 6 months and I was complacent, but we weren’t fighting at all and still were saying love you and peck kissing every night/morning, still had future plans, still looking at houses to buy, things were just smooth sailing, albeit boring). I get a long Facebook message from W. I will actually just copy/paste it here.

"I should’ve been forthright with you. I’ve been putting off my personal feelings to spare you the extra stress because i know you’re really trying with work. Ive been depressed. Its actually been for a while too. I just managed to cope with it for a while. I think its all starting to get to me though.

Everyone would always joke about how i do things alone and asked why i didnt go with you and id tell them youre working. I would sit in my car and cry alone eating ice cream. I was so depressed in the winter i was taking the unisom earlier and earlier but i told myself this wasnt forever. This was us trying hard to get out of whatever working rut we were in. I tried to hint at it by saying we needed to go do things alone or without jasmine. I hinted at trips, even if they were day trips. I needed to tell you and i really shouldve just spit it out instead of worrying about adding more stress to you. I tried to shove my feelings aside. Instead it started to eat away at me. I miss us. I miss the way it used to be before all of the craziness of work. I miss spending more than 1 hour with you a day if im lucky.

It really hurt when you know i start dinner at 4 and you lmk at 430 that you arent coming. It would be fine if it wasnt a thing that happens more than once.

Im really trying here. I feel so lost. Like i dont even know myself anymore. Im depressed. I dont eat anymore and i feel sick. Ive been having panic attacks at work. I am struggling. Im losing myself and i feel like im losing you too. And the last thing I want is to stress you out.

Aug 01, 2022 10:31:49am"

So at first glance, it seemed like she was trying to communicate and it was just some issues I had to fix. I changed a lot about my ways, started losing weight. Starting doing date nights and taking her out for day trips, planning vacations, basically fixing everything she has asked me to fix. Things went seemingly back to normal from 8/2/22 to 9/1/22.

9/1/22 I get an email from Hellofresh saying "jim" has redeemed a hellofresh discount code. I thought it was odd since I never give those out. I ask her about it when I see her that morning, and her face turned bright red and she kind of stuttered saying "oh, oh yea I give those codes to all my friends". I was like well I’ve never seen one redeemed before, weird but no big deal, and it was pretty innocuous.

In our 7 years together, she had never ever been even a little suspicious or weird about other guys. She would get messages a lot from them on social media, especially on her personal fitness account, but she would always show me the messages and laugh about it. Her phone never had a password on it, nor did her laptop. These things and her always saying she would never cheat and I was stuck with her forever all the time, how she knew I had abandonment issues and would NEVER do that to me etc., had me feeling very secure about us in regards to other guys/cheating.

Her reaction to asking about the hello had me feeling weird though, so I sat down and searched her Facebook friends for "jim", and found one "jim". I noticed he seemed very much her type, they had the same favorite bands, they both had/like tattoos, he is a younger good looking guy (she's 10 years younger than me) so I was feeling a little nervous, then I also noticed they had both started to heart react to each other’s pictures and posts around June, 2 months previous. At this point I know you all are like oh boyyyyyy there it is man…but because of the above about how secure I felt with her, I basically just told myself it was nothing, heart reacts don’t mean anything these days, in hindsight I put the blinders on because I almost didn’t want to know or even think it was a possibility.

So, I never even mentioned anything about the above to her since it was just circumstantial at best and I was probably avoiding an answer I didn’t want.

The next day, 9/2/22, she was acting very anxious all day. We went for a ride and I kept asking her what was up, and she finally broke down crying and delivered the ILYBINILWY speech to me. She said the past month of August of me trying was nice, but that she felt like I was just a brother to her at this point, like a best friend, and that she should feel more than that with her husband or partner. I was in shock basically. I drove home and we sat down to talk. I told her I won’t give up on her and I won’t lose her, and it couldn’t possibly be too late, and we should try marriage counseling. She said we could try a session or two, and that she was just really confused and needed to find herself. I asked her if there was another guy and she adamantly said "no, and I knew you would say that too, why does it always have to be another guy, it’s definitely not another guy, I just fell out of love with you and want to learn to be independent."

So that night she slept at her girlfriends house, supposedly. The next day she got back and said she didn’t want to sleep in the same bed and she needed space and would sleep on the couch bed in the living room. She told me she wasn’t sure what she wanted anymore, and that she needed a few weeks to think. During this time I ramped up my "changing" even more, I started doing all the housework, trying to take her on dates, but she was very resistant to any attempts from me at all, no kissing, no hugs even. All my support people kept saying "it has to be another guy, this doesn’t make sense, she wouldn’t be this resistant to you trying just from you neglecting her for a few months" but I kept telling them all no way, she is NOT like that at all and she would have just told me, like she said she always would. I defended her to the death about it not being another guy.

2 weeks go by, it’s now 9/14/22, she tells me the feelings aren’t coming back, and she wants to move out, but can’t afford it so want’s to live as roommates until spring time. I hesitantly tell her I am up for that (with the intention of just gaining more time with her to change her mind), but told her my line in the sand is no dating and no other guys, as I couldn’t handle that, and she readily agreed.

9/14/22 to 10/3/22, was hard, it was a roller coaster. She bought her own bed set and moved into the spare room. She was spending a lot of time at her girl friends, supposedly, but I never questioned it, again always giving her the benefit of the doubt since for 7 years she was so faithful. Sometimes she would call me crying at 1am and ask to come lay with me in our bed, I would say yes, and she would just lay in my arms and sob, telling me she hates herself and she knows she's hurting me badly but just can’t get the feelings back. Telling me how she’s burning bridges at work and socially, how she's broke, doesn’t own her own car, how her life just sucks. Other days she would barely talk to me at all or act perfectly fine and happy (usually when out with her friend). My main support person (my best friend) told me that as much as I didn’t want to know, I needed to find out if there was another guy, but I kept telling him no, she wouldn’t do that, she just fell out of love man, she wouldn’t lie. I noticed at one point her dash cam was unplugged, which was odd, and also that her snapchat location was off (I had never really paid attention to that so I didn’t know when she turned it off but thought it was odd), and I noticed her phone had a passcode. All these things were obviously red flags to the highest order, but once again, I just kept saying no, she wouldn’t do that, they are just coincidences. He told me to check phone logs at least, but I refused, saying I didn’t have too as I still fully trusted her. (Isn’t hindsight unreal? As I type all this stuff I keep saying WHAT AN IDIOT MAN REALLY??????)

I had asked her a few more times over this period if there was another guy, and I finally mentioned that I noticed her and "jim"s interactions on Facebook and how it was a little weird timing wise to all this, her face turned red but she said oh no he’s just a friend. Again I fully and instantly believed her, putting the blinders on one more time.

10/3/22-(actual dday I guess) We had a really good day, and I was feeling hopeful for no good reason about us, so I figured I would go leave a note in her car for her to find in the morning, like I used to do when we were good. I opened her car door and noticed two things. An apartment complex application. No big deal since I knew she was moving eventually, but she told me she was waiting until spring to move so I was taken aback a little. But then, a receipt fell out of her door pocket. I picked it up to see if it was something I could throw out and noticed it was a take out pick up receipt, and it had "jim"s name on it. Me being me, I looked at the time/date on it and scrolled back in W and I’s messages and saw that she said she was with her girl friend that night, so that’s when it all started to fall apart for me.

10/4/22 we went out to eat to celebrate her passing some test for college, and I couldn’t really act right and didn’t know how to tell her about what I found. After eating we went to some stores and she went to try on a skirt, supposedly for me. When she came out of the dressing room and was putting the skirt back, I told myself that I’ve never snooped before but I needed some more evidence than the receipt, maybe they were just friends, etc. Her phone was open and in her hand, and I noticed it was open to a snapchat message, with "jims" name at the top, with hearts next to it, and I saw a picture and some messages that made it clear they were not just friends. I could barely drive home without shaking. She knew something was wrong but just sat in silence. When we got home she immediately said she was going to her girlfriends house and left. I messaged her and asked her to please come home as I had to talk to her about something but she refused and said she was having fun at friends house and would be home tomorrow.

At this point it was clear as day and it felt like my world was falling apart (more than it had already from her wanting a D to "be independent and find herself". She got home and we had "the talk". I told her about the receipt, about seeing the messages, and that I knew. She was emotionless. She pursed her lips and said "welp, I guess you know now". I still didn’t know the details or how big or small the affair was, or even if it was an affair, for all I knew she only started getting with him after she told me she wanted to D. (my wishful thinking again). I told her that she knew my line in the sand was no other guys, and there was obviously another guy, so the current living situation wasn’t going to work. She started crying, saying she has nowhere to go. I told her well, stop talking to "jim" then and we can keep living together. This was where I got another sharp knife to the heart. She looked at me and said "I can’t. I can’t stop talking to him. I tried so hard but I can’t. I’m sorry I let it get to this point but I can’t. Even if it means I need to move into a shitty place, I can’t stop talking to him".

That was my first hint they weren’t just a casual fling, and it hurt like hell. I told her "well I’m sorry but welcome to the consequences of your actions. We need to find living arraignments by 11/1/22, I will not live with your while you are, whatever you are, with another guy" She cried more and left. When I saw her at home later, she basically had changed her tone (probably after talking to him) and just said, "thanks for letting me stay until I first, I know I don’t deserve it, I’ll be out by then". I felt so deflated. I got no begging, no pleading, she was already so sure about her decision to leave me for this other guy, and was emotionless about it at that. She had been lying to me and hiding him from me to keep my half of the rent coming in, and planned to keep doing that for another 4-5 months! I called her out on that being her plan too and she basically just said "I really didn’t have a plan, I was just going with the motions to be honest"

After that day, so like 10/5 to 11/1, it was pretty terrible. She stopped hiding the fact that she was with him. She stopped saying she was "going to her girlfriends" and just starting saying "not coming home tonight". Her Lingerie drawer would be left open some nights, almost on purpose. Worn lingerie and obviously worn thongs would be in the hamper. She brought home one of his work shirts and would sleep in it every night. She didn’t know I was seeing all this and I don’t think she was doing it on purpose but she wasn’t really hiding it either. We basically stopped talking except for stuff about moving or the dogs or splitting up the stuff etc. I actually tried to talk to her once and said "hey, you know this whole thing, you leaving me for another guy, and lying about it for months, is really destroying my soul here, I just figured you’d at least wait until you move out in a few weeks to start sleeping with him every night, once you have your own place you can sleep with him whenever and I won’t have to know", and she basically said "what does it matter? You already know I'm with him so I don’t think it should matter".

She did stop sleeping out those last 2 weeks after the talk, but I noticed the sliding door to outside in her room kept being left unlocked after I’d lock it each morning, and there were Coke bottles on her nightstand (she never drank soda, but I know jim did), so instead of sleeping out, she snuck him in instead! This gutted me as well, like she was so into this guy she just COULDN’T FUCKING WAIT, she couldn’t spare me the pain, she just HAD to sleep with him one way or another.

This is where I did some "pain shopping". I knew she was leaving me for him, so the past really didn’t matter, but I couldn’t help it. I checked the phone logs first. This is where I found the start date of the phone calls/texts. 7/15/22. Two weeks before she even told me anything was wrong with us. They would call each other for hours at all hours of the day/night, when she was at work, when I was at work and she was home. Hundreds of texts. The phone calls stopped from 8/3 to 8/18…I think this was the time she told me she tried to stop talking to him, but they resumed and got even longer/more. I noticed that on 8/1, the morning she sent me that long message, she had a 5 hour long talk with him first, so I bet they were talking about what to say to me. Same thing on 9/2 for the ILYBNILWY talk, they talked for 4 hours first, again probably talking about how she was going to tell me. Makes me want to puke. They also showed me that almost every time she had said she was with her girl friend, she was actually with "jim" for the past 2 months of me thinking I was trying to save my marriage. I noticed something weird too, on 10/13 she went to the casino with her sister, and I saw that she called him 98 times in a row without him picking up, within a 3 hour period, and texted him over 350 times as well. I asked her about this later and she said "oh that was just an argument"….but in my head I was like 98 unanswered calls? 350 texts in 3 hours? You are completely obsessed with this guy. Broke my heart all over.

Second and last pain shop was listening/watching the dash cam video. I found out why she was so broke all the time, she was going to his house every morning for hours before work, and after work. I found what I think was one of their first nights having sex, 7/28/22, where she called him and he said how good it was, and she said "that was nothing! That was Tame, people were home, wait until there are no distractions and I bring the toys and outfits! I will make you cum three times instead of just 2 like tonight, you just wait, just wait…just wait…"

I will NEVER unhear that. Ever. Hearing how eager to please this kid she was, in July, before I even knew anything was wrong, and hearing her say "just wait", like her mind was already made up that she was going to continue it indefinitely, burns a hole into me every time I replay it in my head (and I do at least 100 times a day, still). PLEASE don’t pain shop, you will never unhear or un-see the things you see and hear and it will fucking haunt you. Some days I can’t stop thinking about this, her eagerness, and how every step she took after the fact was all about pleasing him, all about getting away from me.

From other dash cam audio and from things she told me, it was all her pursuing him too. It wasn't some guy trying to steal my wife as I originally thought. SHE was the one constantly trying to impress him and get approval from him. I even noticed she bought books about "how to get the guy who doesn’t want you". The whole dynamic was him being there for her emotionally and sexually but not wanting people to know about them, and she didn’t even care, she just kept taking steps to get away from me and closer to him. That was and is a big hit to my ego for sure, seeing/hearing your wife absolutely obsessed with another guy. As of now, 1 week after goodbye, they are officially dating, I’ve seen them together once already. I feel so crushed, my wife left me for a younger, more compatible guy without even giving me a chance to show her what I could have been, and had a 3 month affair with him then tried to hide him from me to keep a roof over her head to boot!

11/2 was the official "goodbye" meetup, and then there was another unplanned shorter one 11/4 where we ended up at the house at the same time getting the last of our stuff out.

During these two times (we haven’t really talked much at all besides the business of moving/divorce the month of October) she was very open and honest (seemingly) with me about the affair, the reasons, what lead up to it etc. This was also the first time she really showed remorse, (even on dday she basically just said "welp, I guess you know now").

She actually had a few panic attacks, fell on the dirt ground crying, puked a few times, kept saying how sorry she was and how she will forever feel guilty about how she went about leaving me (exit affair). How genuine all that was I am not sure, but it was nice to at least see some emotions from her, however exaggerated they might have been.

What’s stuck with me since, is that she finally gave me a glimpse into her and AP’s relationship (again, how genuine it was, I don’t know). She basically told me he isn’t some golden penis godlike figure that I kept making him out to be in my head, and they are having issues, he doesn’t want to make them "official" to the public, he has a crazy ex that won’t leave them alone, and he’s backed off a lot since I found out about them and since she’s moved out.

To me this sounds like Limerence starting to wear off, but I didn’t tell her that. So while her telling me they are already having issues obviously spiked my false hope, she went on to tell me "I just can’t quit this guy though, I’m addicted to him, and you’re right, I’m obsessed with him, and in the beginning I really did think he was my soul mate and Yes that’s why I cheated and am leaving you for him, and I still hope it works out with us, I’m trying to change him, I gave up everything for this guy and I need to make it work" Again this seems like her still being in full Limerence as well but I can't stop that (nor should I want to even at this point, right?)

I told her how she’s been addicted to toxic relationships before meeting me, and that it sounds like she’s going down that road again, but she basically just kept saying "I just don’t know what it is about him, I just can’t stop, I just can’t, I need to do this" When she goes into a new relationship, she goes hard and 100%, she did it with her past 2 exes and with me as well, so I hate when people say "she will come crawling back man, you shouldn't take her back when she does, but she will!". I don't think she will at all. I've never seen her get this into someone so quickly and completely, and they seem pretty compatible so I think they might work out long term, that's what I have to tell myself at least.

Since then I've already seen them together once, him driving her car, and she looked so happy too, until we made eye contact at least.

She threw away our 8 years, the nice car I paid for, got her own crappy overpriced used car, split up our dogs, left our nice house in a nice town, moved into a crappy little apartment in a crappy town, ALL for this other guy, who didn’t even want people to know they were together at first. It tears me apart every day. I know it’s still fresh, but I need it to stop. I know it will get better, but right now it’s absolute agony.

[This message edited by foog2 at 5:05 AM, Monday, November 14th]

I think you need to attend to your own needs, the main one of which is probably to deal with your fear of abandonment. I do not mean to minimize the pain you felt as a kid. Rather, I'm saying that I think you made some decisions at 8 years old that are still governing your life, and you were too young and inexperienced to make good decisions about relationships when your were 8.

I have more than a little experience fearing being abandoned, and it took more than a little therapy to get over it. But boy! Was it worth the effort!

Sorry you are here.

You just wasted way to much energie in trying to take her back (the pick me dance).

If she was displeased with her marriage she could have found any number of ways to address that. Talking. Counceling, D, etc. Cheating is never an excuse. She cheated because SHE WANTED TO.

She is nowhere near R material. And the tremendous lack of respect for you she showned - being it through using you to get a place to stay, using you to confort her whenever she was feeling down or even when the A was disclosed (no regard for your feelings when going out to his OP, lingerie drawers open and the likes) - really do support this.

She is not anywhere near remorseful and was using the time at your place while she was monkey branching using both you and her OP for that. She seems to have decided on what she wants. Pure disrespect man.

Run to the hills as if your life depends on it. Otherwise you are in for a world of pain.

I'm sorry this happened to you. But in the end you will be better of without this shit sandwich served upon you.

Stand your ground. Eat the best you can, drink plenty of water. Exercise. Get angry. Don't do the pick me dance. Take care OF YOU.

All the best.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 4:08 AM, Monday, November 14th]

Good riddance, I know you're hurt but you'll be ok, it takes a few months to gradually start getting to a better place, focus on other things, hit the gym, pick up hobbies, etc. Don't forget to get tested for STDs/STIs.

(((foog2)))

No one deserves to be treated the way you have, not putting yourself in the position to have consensual sex with someone is really easy so there is no excuse how shitty your WW behave(s), no excuses. She could have sat you down and talked about how she was feeling well before OM even appeared in her life. Marriages have lulls, sometimes it’s your "fault" sometimes it’s theirs but in no way did you or the marriage make her cheat, she did that. Your WW is a selfish child, she wants what she wants regardless of others. Adults stick it out, couples have crappy days, sucky months, and even shitty seasons but they work on themselves and stick it out together. She didn’t have that in her, the maturity nor character to express herself to you, never gave you or the marriage a chance, instead she chose to play the false victim and slime her way into someone else’s life.

It’s funny you mentioned he has a crazy ex, sounds like your WW is going to be another one for him, good, I do believe in karma and it already sounds shaky. I worry about the dog that she took, doesn’t sound like she is very capable at life. Now she has left put a chain lock on the door at the very least to save yourself the unfortunate chance OM kicks her out and she comes crawling back after hours, been there, done that, no fun waking disorientated to a rejected wayward, fricking sucks.

I wanted to reply to you because of ‘what has been seen/heard, cannot be unheard/unseen’ and your emotional reaction every time you replay it or get triggered to remember it, the mind movies it conjures up. I understand the impact of proof, I didn’t have dash cam audio, I found a hidden (and forgotten) USB drive which contained most of my xWH vid/pic mementos (serial cheater) and it was unfortunate the first one I clicked on (blank icons so had no clue what I was about to see, thought it was forgotten holiday footage) was a vid of my husband removing his wedding band and putting it on my coworkers vajayjay to "marry it because it’s so good to him", both words and footage forever seared into my DNA forever more. So I get the impact visual and audio proof of the affair has. My advice? Look p all tips and methods of emotional detachment and find something that will sever your emotional reaction to the audio (or whatever else pain shopping has revealed.) Before COVID locked my country down I was able to go to a couple of group therapy sessions IRL and saw how stewing/replaying on what BS have heard/seen/read via pain shopping or investigating can destroy a person, it really can fuck with you long term. In the session we were told about the importance of controlling reactive emotions and detachment in order to gain control back over our wellbeing. So if you find yourself reacting to what you know, what you’ve seen/heard or being triggered and recalling that, I think it will be helpful for you to you find a way to detach your emotions, learn to control your emotional reaction to those mind movies. Just a bit of advice from one BS who didn’t need to hear what I heard to another, if it’s clawing it’s way in, find a technique that will help you detach. Plenty of different tips and techniques online to help with this.

As for body health you need sleep and good hydration to get you through these early months. I always recommend meal replacement shakes because they at least will give you nutrients and vitamins while keeping you hydrated and they require no effort to make, you can even buy premixed in bottles these days. Far far better than not eating or eating junk or drinking alcohol.

If you’re lawyering up interview at least three and choose the one you like best.

You did not cause her to cheat.

Edit: If you go to this sites ‘healing library’ follow the links to ‘articles’, there you will find a bunch of free, ready to go, tips and advice that will help you through this time.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 9:23 PM, Sunday, November 13th]

She is a serial dater. She marries but there is a finite end to it and you just reached it. It is so easy to say she is pitiful and you rescued her but both of you came together as "children". She never got past that. Children beg and beg for a particular toy, play with it for a while and then discard it. That is where she is. A man is her soul mate until he isn’t. You can’t fix her. She is stuck there enjoying her new "toy". In a few years someone else will come along.
From your description she has been 100 percent dependent on you. This guy is going to be saddled with the same thing.
Younger, attractive, girls can reel you in but they need t grow up and I don’t think she has.

Foog2,

Thank you for sharing. It is a very long post but I could truly picture everything. I try not to think about my WH infidelity but as I read some of the things you wrote I could definitely relate it to my situation. One thing I will agree on is that you will never be able to unhear or unsee all your discoveries. They really do haunt you (even after 5 years). It is just absolutely the worse kind of trauma you can be in after you have 'saved'someone. The part about saving someone I could definitely relate to my situation. Although a different story its definitely the same pages.

All I wanted to say is the utter disrespect she has shown you is just mind blowing. She continued to abuse the kindness you have shown her. she doesnt deserve someone like you and im glad shes gone. Good riddance. Cheating did not happen because of your lack of interest in her or your lack of sex. She chose to cheat because she wanted to. She is broken and she most probably isnt coming back. She doesnt seem like she wants to make the marriage work at all.

You deserve so much better than her. Please do take care of yourself. I know its easier said than done. New beginnings. Keep yourself busy. That seemed to work for me.

I am so sorry for you. You don’t deserve any of this.

I don’t know how you can manage this but I am Hoping that very soon you are not aware of anything going on in her life.

Once you no longer have contact of any kind, you can start the healing process.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:36 PM, Monday, November 14th]

foog2 -

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry there was a need for you to do. You're a good writer, I really visualized your story. What are your ages? There's a difference between a 20 & 30 yr old dating and a 30 & 40 yr old dating. And you referred to him as a kid, how old is he?

My unqualified random stranger assessment is that you both suffer from FOO issues and were two broken people who came together and fulfilled each other's unhealthy needs. You got the ego kibbles being the Knight in Shining Armor that saves the day added she had no one else and needed you, so you felt secure that she was never going to leave. Her being 10 years younger may also play a factor. She got saved by her KISA and as you stated, you gave her support in all ways, emotionally intellectually that she didn't get when she was a kid. When she stopped getting that supply from you, she found it in probably the first guy who gave her just a smidgen of extra attention, and has now glommed onto him. Her "going hard" and 100% at the outset of relationships isn't healthy.

He may be the substitute for her parents and she's trying to have a do over, getting him to love her will be like getting them to love her. Adding limerence and she's like a crack addict. Regardless, he sounds like a loser and until she starts having some self reflection, she's going to keep repeating this cycle over and over. Further when a guy has a "crazy" Ex, either the guy emotionally abused her and that's why she's crazy, or he is projecting and hiding his red flags. Or the "Ex" may not be so Ex.

In either case not your monkey not your circus. I suggest you move on. There's nothing to reconcile here. She's not regretful let alone remorseful. That woman is lost and not mentally well. You should start therapy, you both have been using each other for years to conceal your underlining issues.

Cooley2here
She is a serial dater. She marries but there is a finite end to it and you just reached it. It is so easy to say she is pitiful and you rescued her but both of you came together as "children". She never got past that. Children beg and beg for a particular toy, play with it for a while and then discard it. That is where she is. A man is her soul mate until he isn’t. You can’t fix her. She is stuck there enjoying her new "toy". In a few years someone else will come along.
From your description she has been 100 percent dependent on you. This guy is going to be saddled with the same thing.
Younger, attractive, girls can reel you in but they need t grow up and I don’t think she has.

Thanks for the reply. I agree. Her first husband she married at 16, got pregnant, and then left him for his best friend when 6 months pregnant, got divorced and gave full custody to the father when she was 5 weeks old. She kept dating the best friend, until he died from a drug overdose 2 years later, a month before I met her. Obviously all this should have been a red flag for me, but as the months and then years went on, she proved herself (so I thought) to have completely changed as a person, mostly, according to her, due to me "saving" her and her getting out of that whole lifestyle and moving 100 miles away and me giving her a whole new life. The 7 years I knew her she was a totally different person from how she described herself before I knew her.

justanotherperson
Sorry you are here.
You just wasted way to much energie in trying to take her back (the pick me dance).
If she was displeased with her marriage she could have found any number of ways to address that. Talking. Counceling, D, etc. Cheating is never an excuse. She cheated because SHE WANTED TO.
She is nowhere near R material. And the tremendous lack of respect for you she showned - being it through using you to get a place to stay, using you to confort her whenever she was feeling down or even when the A was disclosed (no regard for your feelings when going out to his OP, lingerie drawers open and the likes) - really do support this.
She is not anywhere near remorseful and was using the time at your place while she was monkey branching using both you and her OP for that. She seems to have decided on what she wants. Pure disrespect man.
Run to the hills as if your life depends on it. Otherwise you are in for a world of pain.
I'm sorry this happened to you. But in the end you will be better of without this shit sandwich served upon you.
Stand your ground. Eat the best you can, drink plenty of water. Exercise. Get angry. Don't do the pick me dance. Take care OF YOU.
All the best.

Thanks for the reply. I only was trying to get her back/using energy before I knew about the A/AP. Once I found out I immediately said nope we need to separate/divorce ASAP, as I knew not to play the pick me game. I know there is no chance of R and shouldn't even be a thought in my head, but right now I miss her so much, but I'm working to get to where I just don't want R regardless. The more I read my own post, in regards to the disrespect, I see it more and more. In the beginning I didn't even realized how disrespectful she was being, it hurts to realize that when she was once the most sweet and caring person towards me. I am eating and drinking well, it's currently just the good memories and thoughts of her with him that consume me.

LostInHisFog

No one deserves to be treated the way you have, not putting yourself in the position to have consensual sex with someone is really easy so there is no excuse how shitty your WW behave(s), no excuses. She could have sat you down and talked about how she was feeling well before OM even appeared in her life. Marriages have lulls, sometimes it’s your "fault" sometimes it’s theirs but in no way did you or the marriage make her cheat, she did that. Your WW is a selfish child, she wants what she wants regardless of others. Adults stick it out, couples have crappy days, sucky months, and even shitty seasons but they work on themselves and stick it out together. She didn’t have that in her, the maturity nor character to express herself to you, never gave you or the marriage a chance, instead she chose to play the false victim and slime her way into someone else’s life.

It’s funny you mentioned he has a crazy ex, sounds like your WW is going to be another one for him, good, I do believe in karma and it already sounds shaky. I worry about the dog that she took, doesn’t sound like she is very capable at life. Now she has left put a chain lock on the door at the very least to save yourself the unfortunate chance OM kicks her out and she comes crawling back after hours, been there, done that, no fun waking disorientated to a rejected wayward, fricking sucks.

I wanted to reply to you because of ‘what has been seen/heard, cannot be unheard/unseen’ and your emotional reaction every time you replay it or get triggered to remember it, the mind movies it conjures up. I understand the impact of proof, I didn’t have dash cam audio, I found a hidden (and forgotten) USB drive which contained most of my xWH vid/pic mementos (serial cheater) and it was unfortunate the first one I clicked on (blank icons so had no clue what I was about to see, thought it was forgotten holiday footage) was a vid of my husband removing his wedding band and putting it on my coworkers vajayjay to "marry it because it’s so good to him", both words and footage forever seared into my DNA forever more. So I get the impact visual and audio proof of the affair has. My advice? Look p all tips and methods of emotional detachment and find something that will sever your emotional reaction to the audio (or whatever else pain shopping has revealed.) Before COVID locked my country down I was able to go to a couple of group therapy sessions IRL and saw how stewing/replaying on what BS have heard/seen/read via pain shopping or investigating can destroy a person, it really can fuck with you long term. In the session we were told about the importance of controlling reactive emotions and detachment in order to gain control back over our wellbeing. So if you find yourself reacting to what you know, what you’ve seen/heard or being triggered and recalling that, I think it will be helpful for you to you find a way to detach your emotions, learn to control your emotional reaction to those mind movies. Just a bit of advice from one BS who didn’t need to hear what I heard to another, if it’s clawing it’s way in, find a technique that will help you detach. Plenty of different tips and techniques online to help with this.

As for body health you need sleep and good hydration to get you through these early months. I always recommend meal replacement shakes because they at least will give you nutrients and vitamins while keeping you hydrated and they require no effort to make, you can even buy premixed in bottles these days. Far far better than not eating or eating junk or drinking alcohol.

If you’re lawyering up interview at least three and choose the one you like best.

You did not cause her to cheat.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you. She admitted multiple times that she should have sat me down and talked to me about it, or even mentioned/threatened divorce, instead of cheating. She said she feels like a monster, like a total POS, and she will never do that to anyone again and has learned that communication is key. All I feel about that is, why does the new guy get this new you, with new skills to make the relationship work? Why are you going to therapy NOW, AFTER you had a giant affair and left me for him? You are suddenly NOW working on yourself and giving your NEW relationship/guy the best chance at working..why didn't I get any of that? I am trying very hard to stop thinking about the audio stuff, I think that's going to be the hardest part of this journey to be honest. I have not got a lawyer as we both already agreed to do a non-contested divorce, we've already split up everything so I just need to file the actual paperwork once she returned her portion, then have to see her in court in a few months for the hearing, and then it will be official 3 months after that.

LIYA13

Thank you for sharing. It is a very long post but I could truly picture everything. I try not to think about my WH infidelity but as I read some of the things you wrote I could definitely relate it to my situation. One thing I will agree on is that you will never be able to unhear or unsee all your discoveries. They really do haunt you (even after 5 years). It is just absolutely the worse kind of trauma you can be in after you have 'saved'someone. The part about saving someone I could definitely relate to my situation. Although a different story its definitely the same pages.

All I wanted to say is the utter disrespect she has shown you is just mind blowing. She continued to abuse the kindness you have shown her. she doesnt deserve someone like you and im glad shes gone. Good riddance. Cheating did not happen because of your lack of interest in her or your lack of sex. She chose to cheat because she wanted to. She is broken and she most probably isnt coming back. She doesnt seem like she wants to make the marriage work at all.

You deserve so much better than her. Please do take care of yourself. I know its easier said than done. New beginnings. Keep yourself busy. That seemed to work for me.

Thanks for the reply. I tend to keep defending her disrespectful attitude in my head, saying her resentment towards how I treated her in the last year was why she was so emotionless and disrespectful, but I need to remind myself that I wasn't abusive, wasn't gambling away the rent money, or cheating, or lying, giving her STD's etc...I was just emotionally and sexually unavailable. I was still putting cute notes in her car every day. Still bringing her flowers once a week at work. Still surprising her with little gifts all the time. Far from the "rock bottom" she claimed she felt like the last 6 months were. I agree she is not coming, or crawling back. I have never seen her so into someone else before and she has been an absolute freight train about getting a divorce and being with AP.

Aletheia

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry there was a need for you to do. You're a good writer, I really visualized your story. What are your ages? There's a difference between a 20 & 30 yr old dating and a 30 & 40 yr old dating. And you referred to him as a kid, how old is he?

My unqualified random stranger assessment is that you both suffer from FOO issues and were two broken people who came together and fulfilled each other's unhealthy needs. You got the ego kibbles being the Knight in Shining Armor that saves the day added she had no one else and needed you, so you felt secure that she was never going to leave. Her being 10 years younger may also play a factor. She got saved by her KISA and as you stated, you gave her support in all ways, emotionally intellectually that she didn't get when she was a kid. When she stopped getting that supply from you, she found it in probably the first guy who gave her just a smidgen of extra attention, and has now glommed onto him. Her "going hard" and 100% at the outset of relationships isn't healthy.

He may be the substitute for her parents and she's trying to have a do over, getting him to love her will be like getting them to love her. Adding limerence and she's like a crack addict. Regardless, he sounds like a loser and until she starts having some self reflection, she's going to keep repeating this cycle over and over. Further when a guy has a "crazy" Ex, either the guy emotionally abused her and that's why she's crazy, or he is projecting and hiding his red flags. Or the "Ex" may not be so Ex.

In either case not your monkey not your circus. I suggest you move on. There's nothing to reconcile here. She's not regretful let alone remorseful. That woman is lost and not mentally well. You should start therapy, you both have been using each other for years to conceal your underlining issues.

Thank you for the reply. I think you are spot on. I've added the ages to my post (currently 37M/28F) The AP is, going by his facebook age at least, only 20 years old, which is why I refer to him as a "kid". He might be a little older from what I know, but not much. I think you are right about us being two broken people supporting each other and basically patching the cracks. She basically backed up what you said about finding the supply somewhere else as well. Her dad was an abusive POS who would always tell her he never loved her and wished he never had her, so she had this crazy need to be wanted by a man and please him, which was me for the past 7 years, which was why she was so sweet and faithful, I was the daddy she never had, but when I started to reject her in the last year, she had to immediately find that validation somewhere else, and like you said, AP was probably the first guy to come along and act into her so she latched on with a need to make him love her and feel loved again, and when she did, she was instantly addicted.

I agree there is nothing to reconcile. I keep replaying the good times in my head, saying that old her is still in there somewhere, and I just want that old her back so bad, ignoring the fact that that old her, and our marriage, is dead. She is now the woman who cheated on me, lied to me, disrespected me badly, had an exit affair. It's hard to remind myself of that when there is 7 years of sweet, loving, caring, selfless, beautiful ex wife playing in my head, but I know I have to do it. I have re-started therapy as of a month ago. She has been in therapy since August as well, which as I said to someone above, kind of annoys me, like why does the new guy get the "new and improved" her? Why did she start therapy only after cheating on me? Why is she going to such lengths to make sure her and AP have a healthy relationship but all I got was an exit affair? Just more things going through my head, unfortunately.

I appreciate all of your replies, and your time reading my giant novel.

Why did she start therapy only after cheating on me? Why is she going to such lengths to make sure her and AP have a healthy relationship but all I got was an exit affair?

Because she sucks. She's selfish and cruel.
And she doesn't care about you. Return the favour... with interest.

Who acts like this to her long time partner? Someone who's trash that's who.

Get her out of your life man, she's poison.

Let me know when you get to the anger stage.

Dday2 for me was the day I snapped and got myself out from underneath the lying and cheating and being kicked to the curb.

That was the day I kicked him to the curb.

SnowToArmPits
Because she sucks. She's selfish and cruel.
And she doesn't care about you. Return the favour... with interest.

Who acts like this to her long time partner? Someone who's trash that's who.

Get her out of your life man, she's poison.

I can't say I didn't need to hear that. I am trying to. The court date for divorce will hopefully be the last time I have to interact with her.

The1stWife
Let me know when you get to the anger stage.

Dday2 for me was the day I snapped and got myself out from underneath the lying and cheating and being kicked to the curb.

That was the day I kicked him to the curb.

I've honestly been going back and forth between sadness, anger, and jealousy. Sometimes all at once, sometimes one a time.

Pretty sure its a safe bet her little boy toy will be in your shoes before he knows.
Not that it helps, but I wouldn't bet on her actually changing.

All I feel about that is, why does the new guy get this new you, with new skills to make the relationship work? Why are you going to therapy NOW, AFTER you had a giant affair and left me for him? You are suddenly NOW working on yourself and giving your NEW relationship/guy the best chance at working..why didn't I get any of that?

There are a lot of great quotes out there about good intentions, one such as "Good intentions are useless until they are expressed in appropriate action". What your STBXWW is doing is saying false promises as a messed up way to claw herself back from villain to good person, the "I was a monster but look at me now! I’ve changed and I’m good now!!" What do we know about cheaters? They’re giant liars who lie. This is just lip service and not a very original one. Once you and the marriage are out of sight all these promises will be out of mind and dissolve into nothingness because there is no one holding her to them. It’s why, if you were still together more members would say "don’t trust her words, wait for actions", it’s because their words, their "I’m going to be good now I’ve learnt my lesson from hurting you" promises are meaningless, they hardly if ever follow through. It’s hard to do but don’t dwell on her parting words, they’re not for you, they’re for her to feel better about herself.

OM is only 20ish? It means his "crazy ex" is likely a teen, how sad and pathetic your STBXWW is all sour towards a moody teenager.

If you’re a reader have a look at a book called ‘leave a cheater, gain a life’. It’s not recommended here often because the author is not for R but it is very much a no-nonsense book for betrayed spouses on the path to divorce. I found it a brilliant read, it helped fast track detachment and it put leaving a life infidelity into perspective.

Best wishes to you.

Younger, attractive, girls can reel you in but they need t grow up

Don't date children and then expect them to act as adults.

When we met, me 29M, her 20F. Now 38M/28F

She was a fresh 20 yr old baby, an abuse victim, and you were almost 30 yrs old. Her brain was still developing. She couldn't legally drink alcohol. Do you see what I'm getting at here? Many things are legal but unwise. She was vulnerable and arguably, naive.

Your wife is acting like a teenager and some mental health experts theorize people often get emotionally stuck at the age of trauma. And it's not atypical in relationships that began when one party was late teens/early twenties, and the other partner significantly older, once they reach their late twenties (when your adult brain is fully developed), they begin to resent their partner, and blame them for "stealing" their youth. Why? Because they perceive that the older partner should have known better. Particularly if they lost out doing the fun and many times, foolish, things that many do in their early to mid-twenties. That's an important time, those experiences shape you, and when you learn a lot of requisite life lessons. Combined with common cheater behavior, this may be behind some of her apathy towards you. It's interesting that many are referring to her as a "child" because there's a connection. She may be trying to re-live her 20's, maybe even teenage years, but this time in a carefree lifestyle that she never got to experience. I apologize my vocabulary is crude, I wish I were more eloquent.

She shouldn't have cheated on you. It's wrong what she did. However I do generally empathize with her. She's a mess. Abused by her dad, pregnant and married at 16, gives up her baby (and you can't tell me that doesn't have residual trauma), moves 100 miles at 20 years old for only one significant life connection to a man notably older, over time she becomes responsible for all the housework in addition to working long hours, while being emotionally and sexually neglected. That's bleak. She went several years and tried to reconnect with you. She should have just left and not cheated. But I'm not going to denigrate this woman. She's lost and not mentally healthy and in many ways due to no fault of her own.

foog2 I definitely don't recommend you try to reconcile. This was likely partly an exit affair.

Her dad was an abusive POS who would always tell her he never loved her and wished he never had her, so she had this crazy need to be wanted by a man and please him, which was me for the past 7 years, which was why she was so sweet and faithful, I was the daddy she never had

You were well aware of her issues, and for 7- 8 years it benefitted you, but now it's manifested in a way that has hurt you.

[This message edited by Aletheia at 4:02 PM, Tuesday, November 15th]

She was a fresh 20 yr old baby, an abuse victim, and you were almost 30 yrs old. Her brain was still developing. She couldn't legally drink alcohol. Do you see what I'm getting at here? Many things are legal but unwise. She was vulnerable and arguably, naive.

Yes, I acknowledged that I went into it knowing I probably should have avoided it, but at the time, I was also going through my own things, and lonely at that, so it ended up being what it was, in the beginning. When she moved in it was on more of a "lets see where this goes, I just need to get out of my current living situation" and I looked at it as "I could use some company"...it slowly turned into the relationship over a few months.

Your wife is acting like a teenager and some mental health experts theorize people often get emotionally stuck at the age of trauma. And it's not atypical in relationships that began when one party was late teens/early twenties, and the other partner significantly older, once they reach their late twenties (when your adult brain is fully developed), they begin to resent their partner, and blame them for "stealing" their youth. Why? Because they perceive that the older partner should have known better. Particularly if they lost out doing the fun and many times, foolish, things that many do in their early to mid-twenties. That's an important time, those experiences shape you, and when you learn a lot of requisite life lessons. Combined with common cheater behavior, this may be behind some of her apathy towards you. It's interesting that many are referring to her as a "child" because there's a connection. She may be trying to re-live her 20's, maybe even teenage years, but this time in a carefree lifestyle that she never got to experience. I apologize my vocabulary is crude, I wish I were more eloquent.

I can see this, and over the months during the affair/separation (July-October) she had posted some cryptic meme's about how "if only I made better choices I wonder where I would be now" and the like. She never outright said that, and sometimes I would even ask her are you bored with us? Do you wish you went to college or had a crazy 20's? and she would always say no, she isn't the partying type and likes her life just the way it is with me, but that obviously could have been her just trying to please me with her answers.

She shouldn't have cheated on you. It's wrong what she did. However I do generally empathize with her. She's a mess. Abused by her dad, pregnant and married at 16, gives up her baby (and you can't tell me that doesn't have residual trauma), moves 100 miles at 20 years old for only one significant life connection to a man notably older, over time she becomes responsible for all the housework in addition to working long hours, while being emotionally and sexually neglected. That's bleak. She went several years and tried to reconnect with you. She should have just left and not cheated. But I'm not going to denigrate this woman. She's lost and not mentally healthy and in many ways due to no fault of her own.

I agree and it's why I include the "my fault in this" preface. I think my "issue" with it is the amount of "tried to reconnect" there was. I would bring up, probably monthly, how she was feeling, I would sometimes make half hearted jokes (more like secretly asking her to dismiss my insecurities) that she deserved better, some body builder or doctor that could support her better than me and not have body image issues and have sex with her daily like she wanted, which of course, she would always say no, I love you for you and I love our life together, I'd never want anything different. It didn't even take me making those "jokes", she would regularly, almost daily, affirm her love for me and how happy she was with our life, even up until June/July, I scrolled back in our Facebook messages for the months leading up to the affair and I saw no change in her attitude/mood or how she was interacting with me at all. Granted she could have been really good at hiding it, but seeing that she was basically the same person up until she met Bob, I was thinking the whole "I've been checked out for months" was more of a rewriting history tactic to justify the affair. That was one of the reasons I was so surprised on Dday, while I knew we were in a complacent-neglected situation, she would always bend over backwards to make sure I felt secure and that it was just a rut we were in etc and not to worry.

I agree she should have just left...which is something that will always annoy me. One of her "core moral values" was always "I'd leave you before I EVER cheated on you". She'd repeat that to me any time we talked about cheating or there was a cheating scene in a show or movie, like it was her motto. I've probably heard it 500 times over the 8 years. I said that to her as well during our goodbye talk and she just said "I wish I had answers for you, I really do, I don't know why I did it, I'm just a different person now I guess"

foog2 I definitely don't recommend you try to reconcile. This was likely partly an exit affair.

I do not plan on it. I've went NC and plan to never break it besides finalizing the divorce. It definitely seems like an exit affair, unfortunately. Which is another reason I keep saying I hate hearing the "she will come crawling back, don't worry" comments.

Her dad was an abusive POS who would always tell her he never loved her and wished he never had her, so she had this crazy need to be wanted by a man and please him, which was me for the past 7 years, which was why she was so sweet and faithful, I was the daddy she never had

You were well aware of her issues, and for 7- 8 years it benefitted you, but now it's manifested in a way that has hurt you.

I didn't learn about the childhood trauma until later on in the relationship when she opened up to me more about her past, I really only knew about the ex fiancé dying and the custody/baby daddy story, but yes, I guess those issues benefitted me and eventually bit me in the ass, which is what my support people keep telling me, that it was a double edged sword the whole time.

In the beginning I didn't even realized how disrespectful she was being, it hurts to realize that when she was once the most sweet and caring person towards me. I am eating and drinking well, it's currently just the good memories and thoughts of her with him that consume me.

I know it does not help alot but I guarantee you these thoughts you mencion have run around inside the heads (and still do from time to time - even to someone out of the affair shitshow for some time) of so many people on this forum.

It is part of the mess - as humans we have the tendency to look for the confort "zone", the confort memories of something that was real but is no more. And, accordingly, we have to deal with said emotions. Thinking about the person she is NOW (as opposed to who she pretended to show herself to be in the past) helps a ton. Ask yourself this question: Do you want to stay with a person that disrespects you the way she did? Wouldn't she be showing respect if, when the love was no more, she would speak to you and tell you so? That would be the least you deserved. The way she handled herself and her needs (and everyone who cheats really) is pure selfishness. No more. No less.

Think about it this way. It helps a ton looking at things as they are, as opposed to what we wanted them to be.

Going on people's back screwing around is the worst kind of disrespect possible. Did you do that to her? Do you deserve to be treated like that? If the answer is no then you know what to do going forward.

For R to be possible she needs to take ACTIONS to show you YOU are the prize. To show you that you are worth that. If she does not show that committent, you have the answer. That way you can do what you need to do. You can't force her to get her head out of her ass. The only power you have (and a powerfull one) is the one which allows you to decide what you will do with what you have been dealt with.

There are plenty of women out there capable of respecting someone during a relationship. You deserve someone like that. We all deserve to be happy - and not somekind of second confortable option if going forward the shit hits the fan on the WS side and she decides to come back to the confort of her pawn.

Allow me to vent please. The fuck with her! The fuck with anyone that disrespects someone like your WS did. Look after your INTEGRITY. Look after your HAPPINESS.

Time will help alot. I promise you. You just have to stay true to yourself and life eventually will come back to you.

All the best.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 8:53 PM, Tuesday, November 15th]

It is part of the mess - as humans we have the tendency to look for the confort "zone", the confort memories of something that was real but is no more. And, accordingly, we have to deal with said emotions. Thinking about the person she is NOW (as opposed to who she pretended to show herself to be in the past) helps a ton. Ask yourself this question: Do you want to stay with a person that disrespects you the way she did? Wouldn't she be showing respect if, when the love was no more, she would speak to you and tell you so? That would be the least you deserved. The way she handled herself and her needs (and everyone who cheats really) is pure selfishness. No more. No less.

That's where I am now. Just can't stop thinking about the good times. No, I don't, but I'm not there yet, I still feel like I want her back.

That's where I am now. Just can't stop thinking about the good times. No, I don't, but I'm not there yet, I still feel like I want her back.

The only way you can have a change at R is if she does the work and shows you two things:

1- That she loves you.

2- If the above answer is "yes" if she as what it takes to fix her lack of bondaries (understanding why she did what she did).

As I said. Feeling what you feel is natural. But you really need to know what you really want to do going forward. And by that, using information which will help you decide how to achieve that. And for that you need to take a step back. In all matters concerning the relationship. So you may have a clearer view of it going forward.

If there is nothing to reconcile, then what is the point? If there is, time will be on your side. Time to access the actions and not the words. Time for you to get a hold of the relationship - if you find out that is the way to go, or to let go - if the path is that one.

Eiher way you can't rush what will be presented upon you. That is the only way you can have a sucessful R or a clean get away form infidelity and all its lies.

Take care of yourself first. Everything else will come with it.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 4:38 AM, Thursday, November 17th]