SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Start digging. Most likely you have discovered just the tip of the iceberg. Do you have access to her devices? Do you have passwords? Have you checked phone records?
I would consider GPS tracking and a voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car.
This shit show is only a week from Dday. She doesn’t seem to be displaying even an ounce of regret at the moment. That means she is still deep in limerance and almost certainly continuing the affair in some fashion.
Her behavior is abominable. I feel terrible for you. Hang in there and stay vigilant.

Hey so sorry you have found yourself in this shit show. I feel there is much more to this emotional affair of hers.
Yes she has definitely disrespected you in this big time. Keep up the communication with the OBS. As there is so much more to uncover.
Unfortunately you will have to have the discussion with the children and your WW has lost the right to control the narrative in this. But please don’t trash talk her as she is their mother but also don’t sugar cost it either.
Control you anger when engaging with her. Seek legal advice and try to exercise to seek with the stress of all of this. Eat healthy and drink water.
One day at a time.

Gently my friend, you're in the stage of grief called 'bargaining'. Your story reads like a carbon copy of what my WW (now XW) did during her affair:

'Oh we are just friends'

'Oh it was only emotional, nothing physical happened.'

'We said we loved each other, but I swear nothing physical happened.'

'Ok ok something physical happened but it wasn't THAT bad, it was just a kiss'

'Ok so we touched each other's junk. Once.'

(insert more bull$hit)

She is trickle truthing you and only confirming what she thinks you know. This is very, very common, a classic move out of the Cheater's Playbook. My WW also said she loved AP. Adults don't fall in love with other adults without consummating said-love. Think back to when you were single and on the prowl; saying you were in love with a girlfriend/boyfriend didn't occur until after a month or two of exploring one another physically and emotionally. I'm sorry to say mate, there is a 99.8% chance they have had sex.

Don't worry about protecting the kids; your wife needs to understand that there are consequences to her poor decisions. The AP's spouse ultimately will likely not wear the indignity of seeing your wife in a friendly and congenial fashion going forward; so why is your WW asking the same of you in regards to AP?

My advice? Blow this up. Any concession you make to your WW about her desires in regards to teh weay you treat AP is just giving her tacit power to continue the affair at a later date. Do the 180, take control, and make her realise that the impost is on her to go forward and fix this, not wholly on you. SHe's not even showing remorse, she's still in the 'fog' and trying to maintain her cake-eating lifestyle. My WW thought she and the AP she had the affair in the workplace with could continue working together, for example. I put a stop to that quick smart.

I hope you are doing ok regardless, make sure you keep eating, and take some time out for you as needed. Don't try and power through this goat rodeo alone.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 11:53 AM, Thursday, December 8th]

So your wife has been "dating" this guy in front of you for years.

I wonder if the third couple of the group suspected anything.

My H had the same MO with his first 4 year EA. I was crazy and "nothing was going on". Of course this was the 90s before the term "emotional affair" was used.

My heart breaks for your kids. Their friendships should be maintained to the best of your ability.

I don’t know how you manage your wife beyond "no contact" with the other couple. If she is going to try to have contact in any way then your marriage will keep taking the hits until you decide to D her.

Please consider getting counseling for yourself your wife should be in counseling also. If she remains in denial about her affair I’m not sure how you recover from this.

My advice? Blow this up. Any concession you make to your WW about her desires in regards to teh weay you treat AP is just giving her tacit power to continue the affair at a later date. Do the 180, take control, and make her realise that the impost is on her to go forward and fix this, not wholly on you.

^^Wholeheartedly agree with this suggestion.

Put yourself in the driver's seat here, you make the decisions from today forward.

I'm a proponent of "shock and awe" since it worked for me. My WH had an A with a co-worker who worked at a site across the country. When I found out, it was my way or the highway. My WH knew if there ever was any further contact, I'd be on the phone with his superior and expose him and AP. I refused to allow any more disrespect.

Expose them to your circle of friends. The friendships will implode, but that's on your wife and her affair partner.

Your wife needs to stay the hell away from AP. Forever. If the children are involved in sports activities, she stays home.

She should to be willing to give you access to her phone, social media, emails, etc. Sometimes cheaters will purchase a burner phone so be vigilant. Your wife lost her right to privacy when she decided to have an affair.

I'd contact several attorneys asap just for knowledge bc knowledge is power. Stay one step ahead of her.

BTW, cheaters lie and lie and lie. I'm 99.999999% sure they've had sex.

I also agree with telling your kids in an age appropriate manner, tough shit for your wife.

Take care of your health, consult with an MD if you need temporary medications, and lean on a TRUSTED friend, family member or member of the clergy if you are so inclined. Find a good therapist for yourself to help you navigate through this nightmare.

Like others have said, never, ever accept blame for her actions. She owns the devastation she caused.

I've know this woman for 15 years and she's never once admitted to and fully owned being wrong and likely isn't going to for this.

BetterDays,
You seem to have your head on straight and you're embracing reality--which is a tall order when you've gotten the leg sweep that you have. The knowledge that your spouse has had an ongoing affair (emotional and online sexual at the bare minimum...and likely more) is devastating...and even moreso, IMO, when the affair partner was also someone you knew so well. It's impressive that you are acknowledging a variety of likely possibilities and bracing for some of the worst. Many betrayed spouses work hard to not acknowledge these things, because it's so devastating to realize that someone you've trusted could be disloyal and self centered to this degree.

You see that your wife is still being self centered as she won't fully own what she's done. She she is working hard to control the information that might damage her, rather than work hard to let down her barriers and be fully honest and vulnerable with you. She is working against being remorseful.

If you decide to separate or divorce, it doesn't matter if she agrees with what you want. It doesn't matter if they did have sex IRL or just online. It doesn't matter if it was just an emotional affair. It doesn't matter if she won't own it all. You get to call those shots. You decide if enough boundaries were crossed that you need to walk. You decide if you feel that she isn't going to be material for reconciliation or if you just aren't willing to reconcile, even if she is willing to. And you don't have to justify that to her. If you're done, it's okay to be done.

Whether you stay or go, do focus on your own well being and healing. Sleep when you can and seek a doctor's help if it gets too difficult to sleep. Hydrate (and watch your alcohol intake) and eat well--even when you aren't hungry.

It's great that you are putting on a happy face for the kids and the holidays right now, but we all know that this effort is costing you. And I'm so sorry for that, and I'm so sorry you needed to find this awesome group of people.

You will hear many perspectives, and there is a huge wealth of experience here. Read and consider it all carefully. But it's okay to embrace what's helpful to you and leave what's not.

You are heard and supported here.

I wish you strength as you move through the coming weeks.

Another heartfelt thank you for those that have been sharing their opinions. It has really helped open my eyes and has made things really hit home even further.

show them how a strong Father handles his shit properly in a crisis

^^^^^THIS really struck a chord with me. This is me in every facet of my life but it has not been the case with this. That changed yesterday after I read it. Right now the direction I am leaning is if anyone asks me what's up with me and the AP or my wife and the AP I will give them the truth, that my wife had an affair with him. I will leave it at that for now as I still can't say for sure where this will go but it's leaning strongly one direction still. I'm not going to offer this up unless someone asks but it is my turn to be in control. The first time this will become a thing is this Friday. We bowl in a league with this couple, not on the same team. Some of our lose friend group also bowls and I have no doubt someone will notice something is up. Do I give my wife a heads up that this is how I'll respond? I feel like I should because I'm the bigger person but she probably doesn't deserve that courtesy. It's a fine line to walk. She hasn't told me what she thinks we should tell people but people will see through the BS.

She texted AP yesterday but did tell me. She had a work related question about my daughter. I saw what she asked and she could have gotten the answer 10 other ways but still chose to reach out to AP. He did not respond. I confirmed with OBS on this too. She was totally testing the waters under the guise of a work related question. I'm not stupid. I told my wife she broke the agreement. She said that it wasn't a 'conversation' since he didn't respond. I said zero means zero. She said that is impossible since he works where she coaches at and a handful other 'scenarios'. I just sat there and listened, didn't get upset and just said "Zero means zero. I realize this is going to very difficult given the situation but this is not negotiable." She was uncomfortable for sure and didn't know what to say for a minute (It was fucking awesome!) and I just sat and looked at her with an expression like I was waiting to hear what she needs to say, being a good listener. She then started again throwing the kids will find out argument and all that same crap she keeps throwing at me again. Didn't engage or say a word. She finally walked away. Felt powerful.

I will absolutely never bad mouth her to anyone. The truth told in tactful manner will be enough. She is the mother of my children and I do care about her even though she has destroyed our family. Spent almost 17 year with her now and there were more good than bad times. Enough is enough though and it is time I take my life back.

First, there was sex. They're adults,who believed they had feelings for each other. They behaved as adults do.

No, don't tell her you will be telling people the truth. She knows you are an honorable man. To expect you to start lying to everyone is unreasonable. Also,she has been lying to you for years. It's ok to make some decisions that you don't have to talk over with her.

Now she's worried about the kids? She hasn't cared about them for a long time. A good mother doesn't involve herself with the father of their friends. She doesn't risk their family, their security, their happiness. A good mom ses a good example. A good mom doesn't take time from her kids, to spend with her side piece.

And kids aren't stupid. It's highly probable that the kids have observed some inappropriate behavior. Or have had their suspicions for a long time.

It's ok to tell them the truth,in an age appropriate manner. Don't allow what she has done,to turn you into a man who lies to his kids. They need to know they have a parent who will be honest with them.

Complete NC is imperative. It's not impossible,as she says. At all.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:04 PM, Thursday, December 8th]

Wow! Your wife is either extremely selfish, ridiculously stubborn or just plain clueless.

She texts the AP under the guise of something kid related, got called on it and defended it to you.

Seriously she is pushing the envelope. I hope she does not push you beyond your breaking point.

Hello and welcome BrighterDaysAhead, sorry you find yourself here but you are in good company.

These types of affairs (with close friend groups and kids) never ends well, ever. There is no "faking it", it will not work. You are right to think that people will pick up on it. I would suspect, and probably from the other women in your friend group, that they already suspect your WW and AP have something going on.

It sure sounds like she’s on the offensive with this. She’s using your kids relationships with the other kids as a means to try to control you. I 100% agree, if asked, tell the truth and leave it at that. Your WW and the AP caused this shit storm and now everyone has to deal with it.

My WW had an EA with a coworker and an EA/PA with another coworker at the same time. The days after dday when she would go to work and couldn’t avoid contact were awful for me. My WW "said" all the right things after dday but didn’t really deal with this issue. Finally, she moved jobs and doesn’t work with either AP’s anymore. It made things for me a little easier.

There just isn’t any good solution to this. You won’t be able to hide this affair (and count my vote that they have been physical), your WW and AP will find ways to re-start the A, and now know they need to do a better job at hiding it.

The best way to kill an affair is to shine the light on it. Affairs are like cockroaches, shine the light on all this and watch the cockroaches scurry away.

I’m sorry you have to deal with this. Your WW sounds like she is following the cheaters script to a T.

There is a Reddit sub for people in affairs. I don’t recommend spending much time perusing it, but what you will learn from post there is there is a script for when caught. They deny, deny, deny even when faced with irrefutable evidence. They will gaslight, manipulate, and lie to save their skin. It’s very sick behaviour. Your WW, mine, and many others here have lived this. It’s abuse.

It’s admirable that you don’t want to cause issues for your kids, that’s a good parent, but this isn’t something you can rugsweep. This will eat away at you if you peruse this path. From your posts, it sounds to me that you understand this. This is good! Find your strength, don’t put up with her crap about "what about the kids", she sure didn’t think about the kids while carrying on with the AP.

How much contact do you have with obs? what is obs’s plan?
I fell like you two need to coordinate more, you have the right.
What happens if you report her at her job? Would there be any consequences?
The only way those two will never have "contact" again, is if one of you moves far away.
Frist of all, don’t tell her how you are going to react to people, if they ask. She lost that right.

And it just gives her and Ap another heads up, they both don’t deserve.

The reason she doesn’t really put in the energy in reconciliation, is because she was about to leave you. They exchanged "I love you’s".

Go and see a freaking lawyer and let people know what is going to.

If you want to be on the safe side, put a var (voice activated recorder) into her car.

And yes, they had sex. They had plenty of opportunities, plenty!

If you REALLY want answers, schedule a polygraph test and watch her sweat. I 100% guarantee you will get a parking lot confession that will confirm everything you need to know. GUARANTEED. Schedule it today. Tell her any lies, big or small, you're out. Schedule it for your own peace of mind. THEN make your decision after you have the facts.
Good luck.

Sorry but her contacting the AP is her simply not fearing you or any consequences for her actions, and, as far as I would see it, giving you the biggest middle finger you've ever gotten.
Dont mean to sound harsh, but thats my view.

She texted AP yesterday but did tell me. She had a work related question about my daughter. I saw what she asked and she could have gotten the answer 10 other ways but still chose to reach out to AP.

Wow.

Testing the waters?

Entitled?

Can't stay out of contact with AP?

Still lying to herself?

All of the above?

You don't have to know the answer to why.
The truth is in the action. She's making excuses to stay in contact.

She's also working hard to minimize any consequence to herself.

Bravo for your decision to tell the truth when asked and to not burn her to the ground with the truth. She is the mother of your children. Well considered.

Do I give my wife a heads up that this is how I'll respond?

Did your WW give you a heads up that she was going to enter into an affair with the AP? Actually, on an even finer point, did she give you a heads up in advance that she was going to text the AP with a pretextual question that she could have asked from a number of other people?

By the way, on the question of whether there was PIV sex, or just oral, or just "alittleupinya", whatever, I hope you realize that in the end you don't need hard evidence. Clearly your WW and the AP have agreed to a shared story and for now they're sticking to it, but you are free to say "I don't believe you. I think you're lying."

On a similar vein, you don't need proof of infidelity to divorce. Though some states offer "for-cause" divorces that might need some level of proof to fall into that category, every state offers no-fault divorce under which the only thing you need to allege and prove is "I no longer wish to be married to WW."

I agree with the previous poster. Tell the truth when asked and not to burn her to the ground. It may feel good short term and she definitely deserves exposure, but play it smart. Your current stance is spot on. It is so cliche that the WS breaks no contact early on after dday. On the plus side she told you. Many go underground. Keep doing what you are doing.

[This message edited by fareast at 2:35 PM, December 8th (Thursday)]

As for the kids, I think you all have good advice. My wife is adamantly against it

Oh I bet she is. Said every cheating spouse ever.

Your wife texted him again. Damn she's a handful.

Bet you the other man's wife really appreciated that.

Informing family might be needed to try to keep your wife from igniting this again.

You need some new friends. Cut this asshole right out of your life. Getting your wife on board will be your cross to bear next year. 2023 is going to be a year of changes for your family.

If you don't cave in and rugsweep this, given your wife's attitude things with your wife might get pretty ugly.

Worst Xmas present ever. Sorry man.

First off, I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this. You've come to a good place though and we've got lots of information for you to read in the Healing Library as well as folks who have been where you are. It's a weird thing, because most people do try to be empathetic, but there's something about experiencing infidelity which just doesn't translate and it seems like only people who have been there truly understand it.

Anyway, it's not unheard of for a WS to draw the line and not go as far as full-on sex, so maybe there's some truth there. That said, she did have motive, means, and opportunity. Some BS's do require a polygraph in your situation, and sometimes just getting one scheduled will shake out some truth. We call that "the parking lot confession" and in that situation, the WS typically gives up a few more details but maybe not the full truth in order to get a reprieve. One would, of course, follow through for best results.

It takes TIME to really absorb what's happened, not just for you, but for the WS too. Very often, they say they understand the gravity of the situation and they say they're taking 100% responsibility, but as you can already see, they're not really there yet. Your WW made choices which threw your family dynamic and your social circle into chaos, and now, she seems to think that she's got a right to manage the fallout. The problem is that things can't stay the same because of things that SHE has done. That's the responsibility we're talking about. She needs to recognize that it's not people knowing about what happened that's wrong. What's wrong is that it happened.

I'll be honest.. I wouldn't lie to my kids. I'd sit them down and tell them that Mom's relationship with the AP crossed appropriate boundaries and that we couldn't socialize with them anymore. They'll have questions and you can give them age-appropriate answers. They'll want to know if you're getting divorced. It's okay to say, "I don't know" and to reassure them that you won't keep secrets from them and that they are loved absolutely. They'll want to know if they can still see their friends and unless there are bad influences that you would have wanted to break up anyway, there's no reason why not.

The problem here is that you're not going to be able to cover up the new formality and distancing you'll need, so your choice is to either face the kids head on or to try to manage some big cover-up. What lots of us find out after dday though is that our kids already knew some stuff that they were too anxious to talk about. Being honest and age-appropriate gives you the opportunity to talk openly about boundaries and to model coping skills. It can be terribly devastating for the WS to be on the sticky end of the children's judgement, but it's an opportunity to show grace as well.

It's totally your call of course. It's very early in your situation and you might not have all the facts yet. I would see an attorney to find out what D might look like if it comes to it. Sometimes the WS doesn't take us seriously until we're serious.

She texted AP yesterday but did tell me

^^She already broke no contact. No contact means no contact. Your wife is fishing for contact. Not a good sign.

As I mentioned in my previous post, my WH AP worked 3,000 miles across the country. When I insisted on NC, I meant it. He understood.

AP tried on a couple of occasions to contact my WH through work-related emails.

MY WH did not respond. He forwarded her questions to his admin and had her respond to the silly nonsense. OW finally got the message.

BTW, I think you are very level-headed dealing with this bomb that has just been dropped on your marriage and your family. It's going to be a long and painful process, the emotional roller coaster from hell, keep your cool, take care of yourself, exercise, meet with friends, find a sport or hobby if you don't have one to take a brief respite from all your thoughts.

The fact that your WW told you she texted the AP means jack s"#t. She must remain no contact and MEAN IT. No exceptions. END OF.

It still seems YOU are to worried about your WW reactions, when you ask what should you do, how should you act. And also when you realize how she reacts to what you do.

The purpose here should not be how she reacts to your actions, but how your actions help YOU going forward, considering all this shitshow she put you through. FULCRAL POINT this one in my opinion. You should act based on what YOU need going forward and not based on her reactions to it. She lost the right to be considered in that equation at the moment she decided to disrespect you. END OF.

As someone mencioned above, did she ask you if she could have improper talks with her AP? Did she ask you if she could have sex with him (they probably had)?

Do NOT worrie about what she will think. At this point in time, by disrespecting you, your WW blew through the doors of your respectfull marriage like a 0.50 caliber round going through butter.

You should see her as the "enemy" at the moment - at least until you can figure out what the hell really happenend and what you are planning to do going forward. And you can only go that far with time. Take that time of from your pre D day life and step back from the marriage you had. Access. Look for her ACTIONS not her words.I hate to tell you, but at the moment you should not see her as what she meant to you, but as someone you know has fully disrespected you BIG time. She is still doing so. She is even still in contact with the AP. NC is NC. There is no other way around this if R is to be considered. FULL STOP.

Beware. Prepare. Stand your ground. If you do so, all the rest will take its place - piece by piece. You can't go forward and protect yourself if everytine you need to implement an action you are afraid at how your WW is going to react. The "f#€k with her"! Don't take this the wrong way, but think about the amount of disrespect she inflicted upon you by going on your back emotionally and (probably) physically willingly sharing her time and her body with another guy.

Stand YOUR GROUND. This really is important to do. For your own well being. Ask me how I know? Ask many around her how they know.

Take care. You will be ok.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 9:04 PM, Thursday, December 8th]