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Well, first you need to stop banging your head against the wall. You're trying to convince him of something he already knows.

He doesn't care that thus is hurting you. That's the bottom line.

You can continue to try to stay with a man who disregards your feelings. But you deserve to be happy.

180. Detach.

Speaking as a WS, I "stayed friends" with the OM because my BH did not leave when I refused to go NC. The OM sent mixtapes, he wrote letters, he flew across the country to see me for a single night, but because I wasn't doing anything physical with him anymore, I insisted it was all above board. I thought I deserved to stay friends as a reward for renewed fidelity. I thought OM deserved my friendship because he lost the contest. My logic was that of either a drooling idiot or a remorseless sociopath... and I am not a drooling idiot.

Your WS does it because he can. And as long as he can, he will.

Your cheater knows this is wrong but he’s playing you.

Sadly you allow it.

My H put me in this position for 4 years. No sex = nothing wrong. He can be friends with anyone he chooses (that’s what he told me).

His last affair had us heading for a D. He was dumping me for the OW. Until the day I had enough and stood up to him, did the hard 180 and told him I was D him. It was not meant to stop him from cheating— I truly planned to D him.

It’s been 10 years but my H knows not to disrespect me or do anything I would consider crossing the line. All b/c I finally had enough and took back all the power I gave him in the marriage.

Stop explaining yourself to someone who only wants one thing. His own way.

Start detaching.

Stop being his wife.

Start reading up on the 180 and what you can expect.

Get yourself some professional counseling.

Stop allowing him to gaslight you.

Become a bad ass. It’s the only thing that works sometimes. Trust me — it’s how I win at everything these days. I take no crap, no means no, I never raise my voice and never ever back down from an argument. I hold my H accountable and don’t listen to his excuses.

Happiest I’ve ever been.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:30 PM, Tuesday, February 13th]

Become a bad ass. It’s the only thing that works sometimes. Trust me — it’s how I win at everything these days. I take no crap, no means no, I never raise my voice and never ever back down from an argument. I hold my H accountable and don’t listen to his excuses.

Happiest I’ve ever been.

Amen to that.

I would ask, why are you pinning for a man who won’t do the bare minimum. You have every right to set boundaries for yourself. There is a misunderstanding that boundaries are to manipulate or control behavior of the other spouse, but they are for you. Boundaries are something that protects you. "You can keep contact with AP, if you do, it will no longer be as my husband." That is a boundary, but it has no teeth unless you follow through. It’s hard, it’s scary, but what do you have to lose? A cheating husband? A cheating husband who has no remorse or respect for you? Not. A. Loss.

As long as you keep fighting for him he will keep taking advantage of you. See him for who he is, not who you think or want him to be. Ask yourself, truthfully, why are you trying so hard when he won’t do anything for you?
Then ask, why are you fighting so hard to keep a cheater? The hell with that. I am pro R, but the BS should never have to fight to keep the relationship after an affair.

Your WH is still cheating on you, and will continue to. He may possibly get his head out of his ass and be able to redeem himself, but as long as you tolerate the status quo, he will keep cheating. Yes, he is cheating on you still and doesn’t care about you.

I’m sorry, but if it helps at all, I have been where you are and I understand more than you know.

At best, you both clearly have wildly different and fundamentally incompatible views of marriage; at worst (and most likely), he's still cheating on you.

So let your husband know that he is free to pursue other romantic relationships and friendships to whatever degree he sees fit... he just won't be your husband anymore.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:02 PM, Wednesday, February 14th]

I would suggest you read the book **no soliciting**. It helped me gain the perspective to put my foot down on some issues.

Also Michelle Mays has some great articles that might help you figure out why you are not able to enforce or even draw appropriate boundaries.

Ask yourself; what are you really trying to hang onto? It’s not him, a cheating cheater who lies. My guess is there is something inside of YOU that you are afraid to lose. If you can identify what that is you can learn to let it go or see that you don’t need this relations to keep it. You can leave the relationship and take it with you.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:23 PM, Thursday, February 15th]

How do I explain that a married person does not have the freedom to have friends of the opposite sex who are not friends of the marriage?

Simple, you don't.

You set your own clear and explicit boundaries, stick to them, and take action if they are crossed.

Your spouse's decision to learn and to abide, or not, by the boundaries, is on them.

WS's sometimes go through a bargaining period where they imagine that they can keep their AP in their life as "just friends." If they are remorseful and have any empathy at all they have to realize that it is not possible.

Most WSs aren't brazen enough to suggest that they should be allowed anything as sentimental as cards and flowers. He cares more that she feels cared for on her birthday than how that sentiment makes you feel.

It sounds like he's unremorseful and he's trying to gaslight you into letting him keep things simmering until he he thinks the coast is clear.

He needs to send a no contact letter and never communicate with her again. Period.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 8:38 AM, Friday, February 16th]

Sorry you are facing this disrespect and betrayal by a guy who is supposed to be the most loyal person in your world. Its really a head scratcher (see my signature line).

I too put up with disrespectful behavior far too long. Its a huge regret. I hung in there for my small children, and, if Im being honest, to not be seen as a failure as a husband (terrible thinking).

The real question here has nothing to do with him in particular. It has to do with you. That question is the same I have asked myself looking back at those troubled days, "Why dont you value yourself enough to reject this behavior?"

Honestly, if someone else treated you with such disregard and disrespect, would you accept it? Acquiesce to it? I hope not.

I hope you can find within you the self worth/respect needed to move out of his toxicity.

See, his behavior is abusive and thus twisted. When I think of him (and my first wife) and other disloyals I think of the quote from one of.my favorite movies, "Last of The Mohicans," where Nathaniel says, "Magua's heart is twisted. He would make himself into what twisted him."

Dont let his twisted behavior torment you further.

I echo the voice of others here...180, detach, see an attorney all in short order.

Life is too short for this.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 11:08 PM, Saturday, February 17th]