SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As someone who was once in your wife's position: you are not doing her a kindness.

All you're doing is piling cruelty on top of cruelty. You aren't even completely committed to reconciliation as you're still in contact with your AP. Be all in or not at all. Cut complete contact with her. Not even a glance or a wave. Change jobs if you have to. Of course your poor wife doesn't stand a chance if your AP is always in the background.

Then get yourself in therapy. Really dig into why you allowed yourself to fall out of your marriage and away from your wife. Actually try to reconnect with her. Give her the truth about the relationship. Maybe she'll make the decision. Maybe that's what you're waiting for?

If you can't do any of that, then please set your wife free, give her a favorable settlement, and spare her any further heartache.

Stepping away now b/c this was particularly triggering, but these are my 0.02 cents. Make of it what you will.

Because since the discovery of your affair your wife is watching and waiting while she hurts. She is hoping things will improve and you aren’t doing enough to insure her efforts. It’s cruel.

I emphatically second this from HikingOut. Your wife is in immense pain just from finding out about the affair. That you are not fully investing in her and even continuing the affair in front of her, it’s psychological torture (and I’m not being dramatic). Your wife, the mother of your children, is actively suffering at your hand. You need to stop that.

Most, if not all, have regretted what they've done, and are able to drop the AP like a stone upon discovery. I don't feel like that at all, so I guess my question is, why do I not regret it. Yes, i hate what I've put my wife through, but I also hate the fact that I've let my AP down

You see, most of us when we get married expect the other person, our partner, to take a bullet for us and protect us with their lives. In fact you expected that yourself from your wife and I bet you still do.

And yet, you have brought an intruder into her life unknowingly, risked her life (did you have unprotected sex? Did you consider that HPV is a silent killer?) and watched, no, you actively participated in your wife’s destruction. And now you’re having no regrets, not only that but you’re showing loyalty to your AP feeling guilty for letting HER down although she actually knew what she’s getting herself into at all times. Your AP had a choice, your wife didn’t. And yet your guilt is towards your AP…

You’re not concerned you’ve let your partner of decades down, the one that bore your children, the one that sacrificed a career to raise them and make a home for you whilst you became successful. You rewarded her loyalty with actively destroying her world.

To answer your question: yes, there are other cases like this. My own WH, on Dday, promised to cut contact with the AP but, due to feeling guilty and responsible towards her, he kept being her friend secretly. Let me repeat this again, whilst his wife (me) had suicidal thoughts and lost 2st in 3 weeks, unable to function, he felt guilty that he let his AP down and she was hurting.

I’ll tell you what woke him up pretty fast: when he confessed to still being in contact with the AP 3 months later (they were also coworkers like you and your AP) I was done. I don’t play games. I was done. Where myself and your wife differ is that I do have a career and I didn’t need to stay with him. On dday 2 all was lost, I meant it when I told him that’s it for me, he wasted his chance. (Spoiler alert, we’re still together but when I say he moved mountains for us to be here, I mean it).

My advice to you is this: for your own good cut contact with both of them. Leave your wife, at this point you’re traumatising the shit out of her. She deserves a man who loves her and sees her for what a great woman she is. She deserves a loyal man, one that gives, not one that takes endlessly and still doesn’t think that’s enough. Pack and go.

But also cut contact with your AP. She’s not a good person, she didn’t care about the pain she inflicted on another human being (please don’t say it just happened, it didn’t. People make choices, you two chose to start an affair).

Stay no contact with both of them. Not only for a couple of weeks, give it a few months. Work on yourself, do some therapy to understand what kind of human being has more loyalty towards a stranger who is hurting his kids and partner vs the woman who gave her all to him.

Pretty soon you’ll know what you want to do with your life.

What were you hoping for when you started this thread? You know what you wanted, even though you may be telling yourself that you don't.

What do you want to change?

*****

Emotionally,I am unable to be there for her and that is the worst feeling in the world when you've been with someone for so long.

I don't believe you. First, you are eminently able to be there for your W if you choose to be there. Second, if it's the worst feeling in the world, you wouldn't choose it. You're getting something out of thi. Is it worth the effort and the damage you're causing.

Right now, I honestly think that I am going to struggle to reconcile, but I've lived my life so long that doing anything else scares me. I've read so much from WS' on this forum but none seem to resonate with me. Most, if not all, have regretted what they've done....

  Gently, I question your honesty. I think you're mostly lying to yourself, but it's lying nonetheless.

You keep telling us what you can't do. I urge you to start thinking and talking and writing about what you're willing to do.

Also, 'struggle to reconcile' is a lie - as Yoda would say, 'Do or don't do.' I forget how Yoda ended his assertion, so this is how I'll end it: 'struggle' is just another word for 'try,' which just means 'exert or pretend to exert a lot of energy and fail to achieve your stated objective.'

*****

Some propositions to ponder:

1) You're not the good guy you want to be. You hurt yourself and your family, big time. Good guys don't do that.
2) You can't keep both your W & family and your ap. You must give one up to live authentically.
3) You affaired down with your ap. She's not as good as your W. WSes ALWAYS affair down. That means she affaired down with you, too. That's something your W will have to deal with if she stays.
4) You have to change you whole way of thinking anyway.
5) You will not get sympathy that helps you heal. You're in a mess of your own making, and you're choosing to keep it going. Sympathy will help only when you take responsibility for yourself.

6) You can redeem yourself, but doing so will require honesty, starting with no more lying to yourself.
7) You can redeem yourself. You can change from self-pitying cheater to authentic good partner, but you are the only person who can make that change. No one can do it for you.

*****

I recommend reading about the Drama Triangle. IMO, the portion of your life described in your posts look like a giant drama triangle to me. Read about the triangle ... you can get yourself out of it and be authentic.

Facing yourself is difficult, but it pays off.

You're still in your family home, but you're not in reconciliation with your wife. Not while you're still in contact with the AP. I assume that your wife doesn't know that you're still active in your emotional affair.

My advice:

Tell your wife the truth.

Go truly NC with your AP.

You need to take steps to stop living a lie and get in integrity with yourself.

You need to consider whether the AP really wants YOU or the lifestyle that you can provide her. Sorry to be tacky, but think about that. There are lots of "partner poachers" out there.

Edited because my today-self disagrees with my yesterday-self.

I remain in the family home, yes,and we are amicable, that is until we attempt to talk about the affair, and the minute AP's name is mentioned, my wife just goes to pieces. I then feel that I am unable to be truthful at the fear of what it could do to her, should she learn the true depth of my feelings.I do feel that I am living a lie, but at the same time, I feel that I have done wrong, so maybe I just have to accept that this is my life now and I just act as though everything is fine for the sake of others. My wife knows that I have broken NC a number of times the past few months but not the extent. AP is a professional, self sufficient woman who certainly doesn't look upon me as a meal ticket.I'm keen to hear if other WS' have simply settled for remaining with their BS for similar reasons, and did it work out?

why do I not regret it

Because you’re selfish.

So selfish that you have contorted reality (you cheated, you destroyed a family, you wrecked your wife) into a version where you’re the victim of some cosmic, irresistible force that overwhelmed you while simultaneously being the hero for not leaving your wife. It’s absurd.

Do something unselfish for the first time in a long time.

Divorce your wife, give her a generous settlement so she can get on with her life and find someone who respects her and loves her, which even you admit you do not.

Get help, be honest with your therapist about what you’ve done and who you really are, not who you’ve spent years (and three internet forum pages) posing as.

I disagree with InkHulk. It is not honorable to discard your wife for the AP. It is despicable. It is true that divorcing your wife to be with the AP is less despicable that what you are doing now, but there is no honor in it.

You are concerned that you will never get the passion back in your marriage. It is totally possible to fall back in love with your wife and to desire her. The first step for that is to go completely, 100% no contact with the AP, forever. That means you will have to change jobs since you see each other at work. You will also have to block AP from your phone and all social media. Never text, call, meet up ever again. That is the first step back to becoming an honorable man as well as one who desires his wife.

I honestly feel right now, that I am unable to go a couple of weeks without contact. I've tried, believe me, I have, but I keep reaching out to her, and her to me.She could have kicked me into touch long ago, but she hasn't. I do have a fear that the longer I sit on the fence though, that AP will eventually give up on me and that is a horrible thought. I honestly feel that I would rather see my wife happy with someone else than my AP. I know that sounds deplorable, but right now, it's how I feel, and I cannot help it!Is this normal, it doesn't feel like it is.

I don’t think Ink meant that he should divorce to be with the affair partner. I think he meant it would be right to divorce his wife since he obviously doesn’t love her the way she deserves.
I hate the idea of a BS suffering with a false reconciliation.
It’s better for the WS to end the relationship with a BS than have them live in limbo.

Limbo is exactly the term I would use to describe how we are currently living. The moment I wake, I just feel like I have nothing to get up for anymore . We are just existing. I just want to be alone, and when BS is around, I get really agitated and forlorn. It's awful for her because all she wants is something from me to tell her that I'm fully committed, and I'm nowhere near that point currently.

I have read on this site for many years and you are, by far, the most disgusting, selfish, delusional, and self absorbed cheater I’ve encountered. I truly hope both women eventually leave you. I have zero sympathy for the home wrecker you’ve insanely decided was a decent person, but I can’t imagine that even she is as abhorrent as you have been for a very long time.

Your wife is probably quite emotionally fragile due to years of you gaslighting her. If she isn't having physical health issues from the cognitive dissonance she would be experiencing (migraines, stomach issues etc) she will do if you stay with her, and then eventually who knows what serious illness will follow.
I agree that a generous property settlement and agreement related to contact with kids, if any, should smooth the path for her to recover ok.
Time to man up and set her free.

I'm going to go back to this: You need to take steps to stop living a lie and get in integrity with yourself.

You're miserable and you're making everyone else miserable because you're not in integrity with yourself. You're all in purgatory.

You need to make an appointment with a therapist. Now. You need a professional third party to help you sort this out. Make an appointment and report back to us.

In the meantime, you need to make a commitment to be NC with the AP for, say, four weeks. Ask her not to contact you during that time and see what happens. If she DOES contact you, she's not respecting your boundaries and that's a big red flag. Block her number - and any other means of contact - to lessen your temptation. Do NOT contact her. If she's meant to be with you, you won't lose her by taking the time you need to get your head on straight.

You're not going NC because of your W. You're doing it for yourself. You need to be free of the influence of the needs and wants of others while you sort things out. Tell your W that you're considering this an in-house separation for now. This is truthful and sets realistic expectations. Tell her also that you're going to be NC with the AP, and then KEEP YOUR WORD. You need the wins that come from keeping your word and being in integrity. Build on those wins.

And for god's sake, quit crying about how you can't stop yourself and you're afraid and you don't want to be like this. Just sack up and do what's right.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 1:04 AM, Friday, February 16th]

OP, you make me pretty angry. I'm triggering a bit seeing you whine and mope about how hard being a degenerate loser is.

If your wife was my daughter I'd give you a free trip to healthcare hotel. Grow up, find a shred of decency. I second the post hoping you get maximum consequences followed by crippling loneliness. You're a punk no matter what you do for a living or how respectable you might appear to outside eyes.

Mod please...

I think you know what you want and need to do.

You say:

#1 you don’t love your wife and don’t think your desire for her will ever return

#2. You can’t stand to be away from your AP

#3. Going NC with your AP is too difficult for you

Let your wife free and go be with your AP. Don’t torture yourself or your wife any longer. Pursue your happiness and allow your wife to pursue hers. Sometimes a marriage can’t be salvaged after a betrayal and maybe yours falls into that category.

[This message edited by cedarwoods at 3:51 AM, Friday, February 16th]

OntheOthersideofHell, you have a pm

I am closing this thread to BS members and placing a stop sign on the thread.

AP is a professional, self sufficient woman who certainly doesn't look upon me as a meal ticket.

You have absolutely no idea if that is true. APs show you only what you want to see. I can't tell you how many "professional, self-sufficient" adults I've found that are buried up to their eyeballs in debt. She absolutely could see you as a meal ticket. She pursued a married man with a family...she is gutter trash. The old adage that is a truism of infidelity, they always affair down.

I remain in the family home, yes,and we are amicable, that is until we attempt to talk about the affair, and the minute AP's name is mentioned, my wife just goes to pieces. I then feel that I am unable to be truthful at the fear of what it could do to her, should she learn the true depth of my feelings.I do feel that I am living a lie, but at the same time, I feel that I have done wrong, so maybe I just have to accept that this is my life now and I just act as though everything is fine for the sake of others. My wife knows that I have broken NC a number of times the past few months but not the extent. AP is a professional, self sufficient woman who certainly doesn't look upon me as a meal ticket.I'm keen to hear if other WS' have simply settled for remaining with their BS for similar reasons, and did it work out?

Your BW would be wise to boot your ass out of the house at this point. I don't know what you think integrity looks like, but I can assure you that you do not see it when you look in the mirror each morning. You keep breaking NC, which means that your affair is still active and you just love the idea that two women are pining for you. At this point you are just an ego kibble addicted cake eater and the reality is that you are not committed to either path, you are intentionally keeping yourself in Limbo, which is keeping your wife in Limbo, which is absolutely cruel. The reason you are a mess is because you are so enmeshed with your AP that her toxicity has completely invaded your whole life. I can tell you this, if your wife was here on SI and she was in the JFO or General forum asking this community for help in her situation, the overwhelming advice that she would get is to boot your ass to the guest room/couch, start treating you like a roommate and find a shark divorce attorney to take you and the AP for every possible penny they can squeeze out of you.

What I do not understand is how you think that what you are doing is okay. You are unable to maintain NC with your AP because you are making no effort to try at all. If you delete/block her number, email, social media contact you are then taking control of how contact is initiated. You actually have to send a NC message telling her to back the fuck off and to leave you alone. In that message you let her know that you are serious and any further contact will be considered unwanted harassment and law enforcement will be involved. Of course you haven't done any of that, because you have convinced yourself that contact from her is not only okay, but it is encouraged/welcome. Like I said, your AP is not special, she is not some rainbow-farting unicorn woman with integrity...she is just who was available for you and is just as broken as you are.

I have to say, this thread got out of hand. I hope you are still around. Your thread needed a stop sign from the beginning. But, most first wayward threads do as well. You've gotten kicked around a bit, but I don't see much of it helping you. I'm 15 yrs out, healed and reconciled. None of what I am saying below is meant to insult, embarrass or vent on you. It's meant to give you a different perspective And, I would like to give you a few things to think about. You are confused, but don't need to be.

One, 55% of all marriages end in divorce. Infidelity is in there as a reason, but there are many more reasons as well. You've been with your wife a very long time and have beaten those odds, so far. Second, 3% of all affair marriages survive past 10 yrs, IIRC. I can guarantee you each and every one of them knew it was real. Why is the % so much worse? Like the first marriage suggests, marriage is hard work. A long term successful marriage is a rare thing. The affair relationship isn't built on a solid foundation. You've been dating for 5 yrs, but you haven't stretched the relationship. Because there is no real commitment, things tend to stay surface. That's a generalization, but it tends to be accurate. People lie to each other in affairs. That's why 75% of married affair people don't end up with their affair partner. Many don't leave the marriage if they have the chance to stay. I think you need to spend some real time thinking through the best and worst times of your marriage and be 120% sure of what you are doing. Everything I know from my own experience, lots of counseling and being here, suggests you are missing some big things. Remember that 3% number, that is real.

What do you know about this woman? I can guarantee you that you haven't experienced the depths of the relationship you have with your wife. My affair partner was 180 on arguments than my wife. I expressed a concern that we hadn't tested the relationship, didn't know how we would really handle an argument once we were committed to each other. Her answer soothed me at the time. She said, "I don't yell. I just get quite for a while, that's all." Looking back, big red flag! What she really said was: "I bury my emotions and build resentment." I wouldn't have known how to handle it either, brand new territory. Maybe I'd been fine, but new routines break up relationships. There are 100 more I am sure. I already know how to handle them with my wife. You have to build a new relationship with a different personality that you don't really know.

Love - The way you are describing this relationship comes across to me as more limerence than love. The infatuation, excitement is all part of a relationship that hasn't matured. That will settle down and then you have to discover the real relationship. Again, what do you know about this woman? She is single, but spending her days and nights dedicated to you? Why? Well, she is broken, that much is a fact. She has self esteem problems or she wouldn't settle for a married guy.

You asked someone if they cheat with you will they cheat on you? I won't say it's 100%. I won't say it's any %. But, I will say the self esteem issue she has requires to be constantly fed. When you are no longer sufficiently doing that to keep her happy, then that is where you will learn if she will fool around on you and visa versa. You see, she needs counseling just like you. But, she isn't getting any. Broken seeks broken. You are feeling the need to satisfying a hole in your ego, I did the same. The willingness of her to go along with you on this is very ego boosting. But it's not love. You need to recognize that. Love is more settled and a choice. I can tell your wife is still choosing to love you. But, you are going to lose that. She sees the value of the things you two have built and is willing, at least for now, to give you a chance to rebuild it. I'd be willing to bet she is crying when you start to talk about your AP because she sees the end of your and her relationship (that she will need to leave if you don't), and is in mourning because she can't reach you.

Shirley Glass (author - "Not just Friends") explains your married relationship as windows and walls. You and your wife built walls around your relationship to protect yourselves and opened windows between you to communicate. Those windows allow you and her to be intimately connected. Well, you have those walls between you and your wife right now and the windows are open to your AP. Of course you don't feel connected, you did that on purpose. What if you shut those windows on your AP? What if you reopened those windows with your wife, even just a little. That is how you can turn you and the way you are feeling around.

Lastly, damage. I didn't think I did damage to my adult children (20&22 at the time). Boy, was I wrong. It literally affected their self image. They had seen many of their schoolmates go through divorce. It was a rock of stability in their lives. I was a rock of stability in their lives. Except, I ruined that. I made a complete mess of a situation where both of them looked up to me. That still brings tears to my eyes. I hurt my kids.

So, I don't want you to answer any of this publicly (unless you feel compelled.) But, ask yourself these questions. Think through the consequences of your actions now against your future. I think you are making a big mistake not going NC like now. But, you have to live with the outcome of all of your choices. Good luck.

[This message edited by NeverWillAgain at 4:05 PM, Saturday, February 17th]

Hey LM.

I think it's a good thing that the mods put the stop sign up. I'm sorry you've had such a rough introduction to the Wayward Side. Your posts are extremely triggering for betrayed spouses. That doesn't mean you should leave or lie; it's just that people are raw here, sometimes too raw to be diplomatic or even for the inclination towards diplomacy. It's better to stay in a safer space, not only for you, but for them. Bans from the Wayward Side are permanent, and I've known members who truly regretted things they said here that mean they can no longer post here in any capacity.

Could you have true love with your affair partner? It's possible, I suppose. Charles and Camilla, for example, are more compatible than Charles and Diana were. Their marriage has stood the test of time. But there are two things to consider. First, far more people believe they have something real and lasting with the AP than actually do. Most affairs don't survive the transition to legitimacy. The comparison between daily life and secret life shifts to a blended reality of many complex pressures that are much harder to survive. And second, even if you're that very rare exception, that doesn't make you a star-crossed martyr. It means you have to decide where your priorities lie and then find the courage to get on with it. There's no version of life post-A that doesn't hurt anyone. Being an adult means it's time to tell either the AP or your wife that it's over and really mean it, even though that path leads to guaranteed misery and possible hatred. The only way out is through.

You say you love both of these women, and yet you're not able to make a commitment to either one of them. If you really love AP, then you should cut her off. You already told her you're not going to leave your wife. Do you think AP deserves to be hanging around sweeping up the crumbs of your attention? If her next boyfriend is a married man stringing her along, what will you think of him? Yet your greatest fear isn't that she'll be stuck with someone who doesn't deserve her, but that she'll find someone who does. You fear her meeting a man who is free to give her everything, who respects her and prioritizes her, instead of making empty unfulfilled promises. If depriving her of a real relationship is proof of love in your book, then we have different definitions. You feel possessiveness, attraction, even addiction, but not love. If you truly love her, knowing that you have chosen not to be with her, you will see that you have to let her go.

I personally did not ever plan to leave my BH for the OM, but I felt very guilty over having broken OM's heart. I thought I owed it to him to let him down easily, and I tortured my BH with the insistence that we could be "just friends." This was awful to my BH, and -- I rarely say this here because there's understandably very little sympathy for the pain of an AP -- it was really unkind to the OM, too. Let's say for the sake of argument that we could have been happy together permanently if I had been willing to leave. If that had been true, if we shared something genuine, that made it more important, not less, that having decided against him, I took responsibility for ending all contact. I didn't owe him a long, tortured, ego-kibble-studded series of false goodbyes. I owed him clarity. I owed him resolution. I owed him the death of hope. I owed him a shove to move on and build something new, even if that meant he ended up looking back at me negatively, because I decided for both of us that we had no future. That's also the choice you made. It's time to own it, no matter how much it hurts, because that's when healing legitimately begins for all three of you.

Maia's withdrawal survival guide is pinned in this forum. I recommend you read it. Maia would have understood and sympathized with your pain, but she would also have told you that it is a necessary pain. You can end this limbo. You really can. You must.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 2:39 AM, Sunday, February 18th]

I think one of the issues is you’re trying to people-please in a scenario where literally no solution exists that will make everybody happy. In fact, no matter the solution you pursue, everybody will have more than a moderate degree of pure misery, and that misery will continue as long as you’re half in/half out in both dynamics. Either that, or you’re hoping that either AP or BW will make a final choice and somehow absolve you of having to be the one who pulls the trigger.

Whichever it is, both are disingenuous stances to take for all involved and that is the situation you’ve created that’s causing the chaos at the moment.

For your sake, and for your BW’s sake, you need to settle on being somebody’s (if not everybody’s) bad guy and make a choice. A definitive, solid, intractable choice that you won’t waffle on. One you are committed to seeing through until the miserable end, whatever it may be. The longer you give her hope by staying when you don’t stay, the more she will hurt. The longer you stay with the commitment to your marriage, but leave the side door open for the AP, the more she will hurt. At this point, the hurt is coming from the stalemate and telling three people (yourself included in the three) completely different things, where words and actions don’t match, where feelings and intentions don’t match, and where commitments and dissolutions don’t match.

Have you done therapy of any sort? Joint for you and your wife, or solo for yourself? Seeing somebody who’s good, a neutral third party to hash all this out can help. But they will absolutely tell you that you are in a villain era and you need to make a concrete choice and hurt lots of feelings in order to get out of the mire. And they will be frank, likely telling you to stop self-loathing/pity phrases designed to illicit sympathy or support like "I’ll put my own feelings on the back burner and stay because it’s the right thing." There is no right thing right now, just a choice and a plan that will eventually lead you from the wrong thing, which, at this point, is the fence sitting and tying up two people’s emotional bandwidth while you find the way to people please or push away accountability in making a choice.

You said you last had contact with AP three weeks ago… Are you still in a PA and if so, how recently?

As for if what you are feeling is unique… No, it’s not. I think many, if not most people who end up as waywards end up here at some point. All of them eventually realize regardless of which choice you make, there are zero sure bets, no guarantees of success of either relationship, but unless you want to continue living every tomorrow exactly like today, you’ve got to choose one, the other, or neither, not both. Choosing both is what got you where you are now, and as long you keep making today’s mistake (inaction), all of your tomorrows are going to look the same until one of them says "enough" and does to you what you’ve done to them.

Thank you all for your valued responses, as hard and as cutting as they are, I still very much respect those who have taken the time to offer advice. On reflection, I can see how my posts have the potential to trigger and cause offence, but sometimes when you are in the middle of the storm, it's hard to take a wide focus, and I guess I have come across as quite callous and self serving, so I apologise for that. Things have been extremely tough the last week or two, and I find it hard to convey my feelings when I'm in turmoil. My wife and I have tried to do more things together recently: dinner date, movie, walks, and while these have been nice, there is a realisation now that nothing can ever be what it was. There is a sadness,almost like a grey film around everything we attempt to do.Even my wife felt it, and it surprised me to hear her admit that.I cannot help how I'm feeling. I'm really trying hard to push through my feelings for the AP, and focus on my wife, but it's futile at best, and I am beginning to think that what I'm doing is now actually unfair on my wife. I guess my question to those who have been in a similar situation is will this darkness eventually fade. I'm 8 weeks on meds and though less panicky, the sadness and loss for my AP remains as acute as ever.