SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Admittedly over a fairly short period of time,
(about two months) but horrific nonetheless

D-Day 1 was just before Christmas. In the aftermath, WH veered between being desperately sorry and ashamed and doing almost everything wrong - gaslighting, blameshifting, defensiveness, minimising, complete lack of transparency, TT.

I made clear on D-Day that NC was the non-negotiable basis of any R. He got back in touch with AP four days after D-Day. Repeated regular contact, all whilst going to MC and guilt tripping me (in front of the useless counsellor) for not trusting that he’d gone NC.

Anyway, found out after about a month (d-Day 2 I guess). His behaviour got temporarily (for like, two days) a lot better. He even sent a NC message, albeit a rather more affectionate one than I would have liked, and read out her reply (I’m now sure the entire exchange was pre-planned; her response exactly fitted his bullshit ‘just friends supporting each other’ narrative). He would frequently telling me how much he loved me and how sorry he was, until I asked anything of him, and then the old behaviours would re-emerge. Lots of oscillating basically. Traumatic as hell.

D-Day 3 (they’d met for coffee, he’d messages saying he loved her) came about two weeks later and I asked him to move out and started finding some peace with the idea that I wanted to D. It genuinely seemed to trigger a change in him. I actually started to think he was a changed man. He sent (another) NC text, suitably blunt this time. He was arranging more MC; he was going to do it properly this time. He realised how close he’d come to losing me and our two children. He was being kind, he was committed to doing whatever it took. Stupid me began to wonder if maybe the separation, and my new-found self confidence, had finally triggered a change in him.

D-Day 4 came a week later when I found out that he’d immediately contacted her to apologise for the NC text and tell her how desperately he loved her.

I feel completely done. I want to D. He’s now telling me he’s an even more changed man, and wants to try again with MC.

Who knows, maybe it’s true. I very much suspect it’s not. But the thing is… I’ve seen how convincingly and shamelessly he can lie. So how can I EVER trust a word he says again? Even if he handed me over his phone and passwords, I couldn’t know that he wasn’t just conducting the A via a burner phone. I’m honestly not sure what he could do now that would actually make me believe for sure that he’s not. It’s scary how convincing he can be.

Has anyone ever come back from something like this? Come back happily I mean. Every part of me is telling me to get away, but I’m so paralysed by the fear that I’ll D and then regret it, and I can’t rationalise to myself why I feel this way. Harder I suppose because before this the marriage was such a happy one. I honestly don’t know what’s happened to him.

I made clear on D-Day that NC was the non-negotiable basis of any R.

You told him it was non negotiable. Yet, he did it. Again, and again. And again.

He has repeatedly shit all over your gift of reconciliation. He has repeatedly shown you he doesn't value you,or the marriage.

You are correct. Trust would be impossible.

At this point, what he wants is completely irrelevant. You deserve respect, love, and peace. Not a man who will lie to you,pretend to be sorry, all while continuing his affair. Not a man who continues to abuse you.

Save yourself.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:32 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

You don’t have much to work with here. He’s said he loves her so start the divorce process and move on. I know it’s hard to hear OP, I really do.

If you start the process and he pulls his head out of his ass you can always stop it. If the AP has a husband or boyfriend tell them and give them their power back.

The worst thing you can do is stay in limbo, you deserve so much better.

As I told you in the D forum, I've never met a single betrayed spouse in real life or read a single post on SI where someone said they regretted divorcing too quickly.

But there are many, many people (myself included) who didn't see the writing on the wall and sunk years of our lives trying to reconcile with a habitual liar and cheater.

I'm not saying that reconciliation is impossible or that some cheaters don't have an epiphany when they receive divorce papers, but it seems like you know in your heart of hearts that giving him another chance is a bad decision and you just need validation that you're going down the right path by leaving him for good.

D-Day 4 came a week later when I found out that he’d immediately contacted her to apologise for the NC text and tell her how desperately he loved her.

Either he's lying to you or he's lying to OW. Either way, you know he's a liar.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:46 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

so paralysed by the fear that I’ll D and then regret it

You can always remarry. Happens surprisingly often.

Would you regret D if you found out he didn’t want to remarry?

In my opinion, it's too soon for MC. Your M didn't cheat - your WH did. He needs IC to find out his whys and to become a safe partner. MC doesn't work on that, unless you get lucky with your MC. MC is more to work on communication, relationship building, etc.

Usually I say to watch his actions and don't listen to his words. You already know that he is a liar. What are his actions showing you? It sounds like he's not really 100% into R, and is still in an active A.

Has he read How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald? That is a good place to start.

Would you regret D if you found out he didn’t want to remarry?

THAT, right there, is the question of the century. Incredible insight, HOP.

I feel completely done.

Every part of me is telling me to get away

Honor yourself.

He's not R-worthy right now. Even the threat of separation didn't make a difference. He placated you, then immediately ran back to her. He's making it clear that he doesn't care about YOU right now. He cares about retaining his assets.

Show him - and yourself - that you will not tolerate being played for a fool. If he somehow turns things around and proves that he's trustworthy, you can reverse the D process or remarry.

I can’t imagine going through the horror of D and then re-marrying! I realise I could always start the process and then stop though.

I suppose my concern is… what if I D… and he doesn’t end it with AP… and what if is now the changed man he says he is… and I spend the rest of my life sad… and one day I wonder what I’ve done.

But also.. there’s every chance I could stay with him… he goes underground or does it again… and there is another D Day in a year or a decade. I think I’d regret that more.

I know I’m repeating myself, I don’t really know what I’m looking for. I know no one can wave a magic wand for me and give me the solution. It’s just… hard

[This message edited by LikeAirIRise at 10:26 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

Would you regret D if you found out he didn’t want to remarry?

I’m not hesitating because I’m worried he might end up with the AP if that’s what you mean! Though it’s a good question.

If he went off with her, it would validate my decision to go. If anything, I’m more worried that he’d stay single and devoted to me forever, like he says he would.

(He’s said a lot of things that aren’t true!)

I’m more worried that he’d stay single and devoted to me forever, like he says he would.

He can't even stay devoted to you while he's married to you. He's blowing smoke up your skirt.

what if I D… and he does end it with AP....

R requires much more than MC. It requires, at a minimum, stopping the lies, now and forever, and it requires taking responsibility for his actions. But he's still dodging responsibility (arguing form MC instead of IC), and he's still lying to at least one of you and probably to himself, too.

He seems very unlikely to change from cheater to good partner. If he doesn't, he and his ap probably deserve each other.

Have you placed a probability on whether he'll become a good partner or not? If so what's the probability? If not, how likely do you think he is to change? Is that enough for you? (There's no absolutely right answer here, but if the probability isn't high, it seems like a bad bet at this point.)

If anything, I’m more worried that he’d stay single and devoted to me forever, like he says he would.

Why would that even be your problem? You’d be divorced and moved on. He has his chance to fix things post an affair, he blew it. 4 times. He couldn’t be devoted now. This guy has the loyalty of a scorpion, he tricks you and then stings you again and again, not caring one bit about the pain he’s inflicted on you. And I say this as a BS that went through fake reconciliation and a second dday.

I have yet to hear of anyone that divorced and regrets it. You can recover from divorce as a couple if he has an epiphany at any point. He will never have an epiphany whilst he sees that you keep taking him back.

but it seems like you know in your heart of hearts that giving him another chance is a bad decision and you just need validation that you're going down the right path by leaving him for good.

Yes, I think this has hit the nail on the head. I think on some level I am looking for validation. I know the only validation I really need is that it’s what I want, but my brain and heart are so befuddled after months of trauma and gaslighting that I have a hard time trusting either of them. What I really want is my old life back, but I know that is to want something impossible.

Today I’m just very sad. I miss him as he was, and I miss the life we had. I’m struggling to accept the person he has turned out to be.

I suppose I probably need to give myself time to grieve. Just having a bad day today; must remind myself there will be better ones coming.

I suppose I probably need to give myself time to grieve.

You are still in the throes of trauma response with all of the lies, betrayal, and gaslighting.

Separate (truly live separately). Go no contact with him and give yourself time for the huge dust storm to settle.

As you've said, now you know his stunning capability to lie convincingly. Sit with that for a bit.

With time and distance, you'll be more comfortable with choosing your path.

I'm so sorry you're in this situation. It isn't of your making.

I know this sadness.

Today I’m just very sad. I miss him as he was, and I miss the life we had.

The hardest part was accepting that I missed a fantasy. It was a mirage. Never existed except in my mind. Because I didn’t have the full truth. Definitely have to grieve the very real loss though.

I am a member of the false R club. I HATE FALSE-R!!! It is SO damaging to your psyche - IMO it's criminal abuse. I'm so sorry you had this happen to you. I know how damaging it is.

WH had a 4-5 month affair with a married co-worker (they also worked with the OBS - all three of them so it was a total disaster as OBS also did not know for a long time), d-day 1, followed by a year of taking the A underground = d-day 2 exactly 1 year later, followed by a 3 month hiatus only for the A to resume again underground for about 2 months = d-day 3. His A was emotional and physical - there were declarations of love everyday blah blah blah. The A ended in 2019. We divorced but did not physically separate due to COVID lock-down which happened right about when I had planned to leave.

I do not regret divorcing, but to me divorce is just a legal formality and means nothing in the whole emotional game. I felt the same way about marriage to be honest - I didn't - and don't - need a piece of paper to establish my commitment. What that piece of paper did for us was set some legal ground rules that for me were important in the event that one of us died or got very ill. The lawyer part of me appreciated that. So getting divorced wasn't really a game changer - it was the leaving - the moving out (and buying my own house several days drive away) that really did it - just the action of starting that process changed things for me and WH.

That being said, without COVID forcing me to stay in the same place with him longer and bring a physical separation between WH and AP that was not there before I don't think we would still be talking (they were co-workers in a field that leaving is not easy - in fact I can't think of a filed where leaving for another job is much more difficult off the top of my head - due to the specialty of the work and the lack of application to other job skill sets). I was just done with him and his lies at that point - and false R really did kick the shit out of my desire to reconnect on any deep level (something that I still struggle with to this day). So we divorced but aside from the piece of paper nothing change EXCEPT the signal to my WH that I was indeed done. Then we had the better part of 16 months to talk about that whilst trapped together in the same house...and as my WH's hours were reduced by about 75% and I was working from home all the time and we lived in a location where lock-down was long and very strict, we were forced together for long enough that we started talking again on a much more "real" level.

WH decided during that time to stop hiding from what he had done - stop hiding it from himself - and got into IC for himself. He had a bit of a breakdown and it was his version of rock bottom I think and he decided he wanted to be a better version of himself. That process started in 2019 but really took shape in earnest in 2020 and he was in weekly therapy for several years and now goes monthly (I think).

We have reconciled our friendship and we now date. I don't live with him full time anymore but I do go and visit for several weeks at a time (but I will admit some of my traveling is to see my/our dogs which I miss terribly). Things are 100% better for me mentally. My life is NOT perfect and I am lonely sometimes but it is incomparably better than living with the hell of false-R and the self-imposed stay or go limbo you are in right now.

So, you asked:

Has anyone ever come back from something like this? Come back happily I mean.

And I suppose my answer is yes - we did, somehow, in part because the pandemic-gods forced me to stick around and interact with him right when I intended to go and never look back, but ultimately because HE decided he needed to make changes and he was doing it for HIM (not for me or as some manipulation to get me to stay or whatever). The pandemic just made me stick around to the point I saw the changes and interacted with him on a level that hadn't happened before (during the A aftermath) or I likely would have missed that as I was ready to leave and never ever look back. But the more important answer is I came out better - and happy too. This false R nightmare is draining and terrible to deal with on a cellular level - at least for me it ate at me every waking minute - something you simply cannot sustain long-term without going crazy IMO. Even if your divorce and you and your WH never speak again it will still be better. Trust me on that - I'm in that zone now where I know I am okay with or without WH. There is nothing that would ever convince me to go back and not divorce or try to save a marriage with someone who wasn't committed. In hindsight is seems like such as Don Quixote-esque proposition.

Every part of me is telling me to get away, but I’m so paralysed by the fear that I’ll D and then regret it, and I can’t rationalise to myself why I feel this way. Harder I suppose because before this the marriage was such a happy one. I honestly don’t know what’s happened to him.

Our marriage also was very happy - or so I thought - pre-A. I also for the longest was worried I was going to lose him or that by divorcing I was letting them win and that divorcing was "giving up." Now, I can tell you we are happy because I DID lose the marriage I had. And thank goodness - as staying with someone who thinks they love someone else, someone who can look you in the eyes, know your pain, and keep doing it...that's not worth sticking around for. And you know it. It's why you feel the way that you do - despite all the love you still have for your WH you know this version of him is toxic to you.

IMO false R is 10 times more damaging than the A itself, as the BS' pain is out there on display - it takes an especially fucked up kind of person to look at someone in pain who they promised to be there for only to be the source of their pain, and not only do nothing to help them, or leave them if they no longer want to help them, but to blatantly lie to them and continue doing the same thing. That shit amplifies the pain...it's absolutely worthy of never forgiving. It also requires your taking yourself out of its path because your WH, just like mine, has proven to you that they are willing and able to put your feelings entirely aside and continue hurting you. You have to save yourself.

What happens after? That is up to you and your WH. And really anything can and may happen - but while you stay in this limbo none of it will change. As your WH is showing you that in order to achieve change you will have to do it, the choice is yours as to when you have had enough. I can only say that once I made my decision, as sad as it made me, I felt better as I was exercising some control over my life. Funny thing, that control was there all along just waiting for me to take it. You WILL be okay.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:00 PM, Tuesday, March 26th]

But also.. there’s every chance I could stay with him… he goes underground or does it again… and there is another D Day in a year or a decade. I think I’d regret that more.

This was my xWS putting me through multiple broken contact and finally False R after 2 years of what I thought was reconciling.

I can tell you that I was not one to move past the broken NC's and False R. Something inside myself couldn't allow myself to be vulnerable to my xWS or the M. I had lost complete respect for him and couldn't get it back. My xWS was also not remorseful or if it was it was fake to keep me on the hook.

I finally left and it was the best decision I have ever made. I wish I had left sooner.

Real change, only comes with real work. Saying he's a changed man means nothing. He's a liar. You know this. He's done zero work to become a safe partner.

Believe me when I say this, he most likely won't change with you. I am a former cheating husband. I cheated on my ex-Wife. She caught me and threw me out. I talked my way back in via her mom. I meant it when I said I wouldn't cheat again and was good for almost a year. I wasn't lying when I said it. But, several months later I got attracted to another woman and I cheated again. My ex moved out this time and divorced me. It was the best thing she could have done for her and me.