SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am writing this post to seek advice on specific questions. First, some rather long context...

It's 6 weeks from Dday and I've never shared this story, not with anyone. The affair started from January 2024 to early April 2024 (3-4 months) with MM - MM has a young child too. Me and WW have been married for just under 2 years now, with no kids. We have been together for a total of 11 years. I am 36 and WW is 34.

The revelation of the affair occurred when I stumbled upon texts exchanged between my spouse and MM. Following a confrontation, my partner admitted to the affair. According to her, it began with a kiss during a night out, evolving into sporadic meetings (mainly on nights out at bars) and exchanges of text messages over subsequent months. She maintains that the relationship did not progress physically beyond kisses, though I remain sceptical. I know that this was at least an emotional affair.

When I discovered the affair, she opened up to me about mental health issues she's been having for several months (to the point of experiencing suicidal thoughts). More recently, she has been signed off from work with stress and sought professional help from a doctor. She revealed that part of the affair stemmed from her inability to discuss her mental health concerns with me at the time. MM had been having marriage troubles and she said she was able to confide in him. While I recognize that our communication was lacking during that period, this revelation did not diminish the profound devastation I experienced upon learning of the affair.

The past six weeks have been extremely tough, yet we are both committed to reconciliation. I think she is scared that I will leave her, while I'm scared that she still has feelings for MM. She wants things to "go back to normal" but I'm not sure things will ever go back to the old "normal" (interested on views on this).

Only three of us know about the affair: myself, my spouse (WW), and MM. From my point of view, I want to keep it this way because if our family/friends found out about this, I would find it much harder to reconcile. Unsurprisingly, WW and MM are happy with this too. However, this brings with it's own challenges, and perhaps makes it harder for me, but this is a choice I am happy with (for now). I am also concerned that WW will always be anxious that I could potentially tell everyone, and therefore she may feel trapped with me to avoid the devastation that telling people about the affair would cause for her.

There are a few challenges that I'd like to get advice on:

1) Does anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) of keeping the affair secret from everyone else, including family and friends?

2) MM (and his wife) are both in our wider social circle as a friend of a friend. While I want to avoid bumping into him as much as we can, there undoubtedly will be times when this is not possible. Is there a conceivable scenario in which encounters with MM, such as in a bar, could proceed without undue tension? Again, does anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) of the person their partner had an affair with still being in their lives?

3) Related to question 2, WW has suggested whether I would want to talk to MM - I have declined, but I want to know whether this would be a good idea or not?

4) Going forward, how can trust be rebuilt effectively? Despite assurances from my spouse, I find myself consumed by paranoia whenever she leaves the house. Striking a balance between allowing her freedom and managing my anxiety poses a significant challenge.

5) Finally, regarding therapy, would individual sessions or couples counselling be more beneficial? Our initial experience with a couples therapist was less than ideal due to the therapist not meeting both our expectations, prompting my decision to pursue individual therapy. My spouse awaits confirmation for individual talking therapy from her physician.

Sorry for the long post and I appreciate anyone who has the time to have a read and give me any advice - all advice appreciated!

I'm sorry that you have reason to be here, but I'm glad you found us.

It's very, very likely that she has minimized the extent of the physical aspects of the A. Many wayward spouses (WS) will "trickle truth" the details, meaning that they start off admitting to a kiss, then one night of sex, then a couple of nights, and then you eventually find out it was a full-blown affair. Trickle truth (TT) is the absolute worst thing that she can do if she wants to restore trust with you. Many people find that asking their WS to submit to a polygraph will get the truth flowing. If she has nothing to hide, she shouldn't be resistant. If she's willing, proceed with the poly anyway to reassure yourself.

Only three of us know about the affair: myself, my spouse (WW), and MM.

The MM's wife has a right to know, too. Do you have a plan to tell her?

How did your W and the MM meet? Are they coworkers? If so, one of them needs to get another job.

3) Related to question 2, WW has suggested whether I would want to talk to MM - I have declined, but I want to know whether this would be a good idea or not?

You can't trust what he has to say. He'll lie to protect himself. There's no point in subjecting yourself to that.

I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t ever even consider reconciling if you don’t have kids. Is the AP married? If so his wife should be told so she has her agency back.

You cannot reconcile without complete 100% no contact. If they’re still in the same social group it’s never going to work.

Right now you’ll in fix mode and want things to go back to how they were. That’s why you’re so desperate to reconcile. If you were advising someone else , you might have a different perspective and tell them to divorce and get away from the toxicity. Good luck OP, it’s a tough spot you’re in but I and many others here are in the same boat.

Hi, welcome to SI.

Gently, your wife cheated after less than two years of marriage. Not a good sign.

She revealed that part of the affair stemmed from her inability to discuss her mental health concerns with me at the time. MM had been having marriage troubles and she said she was able to confide in him

^^^Please understand there is never any justification for an affair. Also, the MM was having marriage troubles...straight from what we refer to as the "cheater's handbook." So many of us here, including myself, have heard the same old sob story about how the affair partner wasn't happy in his/her marriage.

Striking a balance between allowing her freedom and managing my anxiety poses a significant challenge.

^^Your wife cheated, she lost her freedom. She must be an open book, complete transparency with her phone, emails, social media, accountable for her whereabouts at all times. Girls night out. Nope. Co-workers meeting after work for a drink. Nope. You cannot trust her right now and you may not be able to trust her ever again. As far as your anxiety, please meet with your MD for some temporary medications even just to help you sleep. Get yourself into individual counseling, marriage counseling is a waste of time and money, the marriage isn't broken, she is.

She maintains that the relationship did not progress physically beyond kisses

^^Married men do not date women to chat and kiss. If they were in close proximity, 99.99% certain they had sex. Same thing here, cheaters lie and minimize, so so many say they just kissed. It's like they read this imaginary cheater's handbook and come up with the same lies.

She wants things to "go back to normal

^^It takes YEARS to get over infidelity not weeks or months. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and honestly, you don't have children, married less than 2 years, I would consider running and never looking back.

The MM wife deserves to know she is living a lie. Her health might be at risk. Please inform her gently and do not tell your wife you are going to do this.

Understand your wife cannot ever see or speak to this MM again. No contact again. Ever.

Good decision not talking to MM, he and your wife probably already came up with some story to corroborate what she has told you already. He's a liar too.

Please check out the articles in the Healing Library, chock full of great information.

Ask your wife if she's willing to take a polygraph test.

You have gotten some great advice. I will try to answer your specific questions:

1) Does anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) of keeping the affair secret from everyone else, including family and friends?

Yes, I told basically 2 people when d-day 1 happened - two very old friends of mine. I am not very close with my family in that I don't talk to them about my personal life as far as my relationships go - never have - to the extent I can avoid it. In this case I met my now WH via my sister (he was friends with my sister's husband) so admittedly I purposefully avoided telling her as that would have blown things up with my family and with his friend-circle via her husband and I didn't want to deal with all of that.

My WH had a workplace A with a married co-worker. His AP's husband also worked with WH and AP and WH knew him very well - WH was in AP-OBS wedding several years earlier. AP also had a 6mo child when the A started. (So disgusting but I digress...). Even though I knew the OBS (he was a good friend of my WH - so I knew him but not really well) I did not tell him until I discovered the following year that the A had continued. At that time, roughly a year after I found out about the A the first time, I told the OBS. He was thankful I told him and admitted he wished he had reached out to me earlier as he had discovered something like 9 months before that the AP minimized (she "confessed" she had a little crush on my WH and that she had tried to take it further but my WH denied her efforts, which was true when it all first started but when OBS had caught her it was really a full blown EA/PA replete with "I love yous" etc). Basically had we shared info earlier we would have caught it sooner - a lot sooner.

So my advice is - as far as your personal circle goes - tell who you want and avoid telling who you don't. BUT - tell the OBS. They DESERVE to know. I did not listen to the advice on this forum for a year about doing that and I sincerely regret it now.

2) MM (and his wife) are both in our wider social circle as a friend of a friend. While I want to avoid bumping into him as much as we can, there undoubtedly will be times when this is not possible. Is there a conceivable scenario in which encounters with MM, such as in a bar, could proceed without undue tension? Again, does anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) of the person their partner had an affair with still being in their lives?

Yes - see above. In fact, although OBS and AP have now divorced, they all still work with my WH. I told my WH that I did NOT want to see the AP period, at all. If we were invited to some event and she was going be there that we were not going. If we were to run into her somewhere in town (which weirdly has not happened - this is not a huge place) we agreed we would leave, immediately. No discussion - leave. So my WH had to decline invitations to social events hosted by co-workers as she and OBS (prior to their divorce) would be there. Once everyone at work knew, WH stopped getting invited to anything so that pretty much resolved that issue on its own.

3) Related to question 2, WW has suggested whether I would want to talk to MM - I have declined, but I want to know whether this would be a good idea or not?

I "contacted" AP via email. I wrote a lengthy email and sent it to her, the OBS and my WH - where I laid it all out - the pain, the misery, what horrible people they were - the lot of it. But I did it at a point where I did not care about the outcome, did not expect a response, and did it solely for me to air my own personal grievances so to speak. It was fantastic. Her crying voicemail admittedly was the icing on the cake but I had no illusions she would ever contact me.

AP also contacted me several times via text after I had ousted the A to her OBS - blaming me for ruining her child's life by exposing the A and causing turmoil in her marriage. Needless to say, I did not respond to those (save one where I responded only with something like "I am not responsible for protecting your child from your decisions - you are. You failed. Try harder.") but enjoyed receiving them immensely as it just reiterated what an unhinged and delusional sad person she was.

4) Going forward, how can trust be rebuilt effectively? Despite assurances from my spouse, I find myself consumed by paranoia whenever she leaves the house. Striking a balance between allowing her freedom and managing my anxiety poses a significant challenge.

My WH has undertaken 4 years of individual therapy - not to discuss our relationship but to figure out what allowed him to so totally breach his own morals and beliefs - to figure out why he was so desperate for compliments and to be desired that he was willing to toss me and one of his best friends to the curb for a woman he constantly described as "phony," "not the brightest bulb," and "kind of lame" when she first started working there - years before the A. D-day 1 was 10/2017. D-day 2 was 10/2018. D-day 3 was 3 (or 4 - I can't remember now) of 2019. His IC started in earnest - about himself and for himself in the beginning of 2019. He still goes 1 time a month.

The change in him is CLEAR. He is much less selfish - or at least catches himself out when he gets defensive and irritated. He apologizes and means it - unprompted. He clearly wants to be a different person and now has zero difficulty talking about the A - anything about it (not that we do much anymore - it RARELY comes up ever). I do now trust him as much as I will be able to trust anyone I suspect. I have learned some lessons about undying and unquestioned trust and I realize I was very naive about it before the A. I had loads of anxiety (see my post in general today about letting go of all that) and it's all gone now and I think it really has been for the last 2 years. So it took me about 5 years to feel "back to myself" but this new version of myself - the old one is gone, and that's okay with me.

5) Finally, regarding therapy, would individual sessions or couples counselling be more beneficial? Our initial experience with a couples therapist was less than ideal due to the therapist not meeting both our expectations, prompting my decision to pursue individual therapy. My spouse awaits confirmation for individual talking therapy from her physician.

Start with IC - for you for SURE. And for her, but only if she wants to go and to figure out what is going on in her head that would allow her to do this. If she wants to go to bitch about your marriage and/or anything other than her own issues, it will help little (ask me how I know).

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:19 PM, Tuesday, May 14th]

Annb hits the nail square on the head.

You need to be aggressive in how you handle this marriage destroying problem.

(1) You need to tell your wife that you are getting a complete STD testing panel and that she should do the same. She will balk and say they never had sex (cheaters handbook response). Just tell her that you can no longer trust what she says... that she needs to earn back your trust with her actions not words. Only her actions matter from here on out.

(2) You definitely should tell the Other Man's wife. She has a right to know what her betraying husband is subjecting her to, including STDs.

(3) Forget marriage counseling... waste of time and money. Only when your wife has her brokenness healed should you two even entertain couples counseling. The marriage was not broken... only your wife.

(4) I think you rushed into reconciliation too quickly. You need to have one or two consultations with divorce attorneys to get a view of what the landscape of a divorce looks like.

(5) All the emotions of being betrayed hasn't even begun to hit you yet. You need to read and re-read "Cheating in a Nutshell: What Infidelity Does to the Betrayed" by Wayne and Tamara Mitchell. Soon anger is going to hit you hard (usually after about 6 months) and you will want to know how to handle that situation.

Personally if this was me, after only two years of marriage with no children, I would leave her and the marriage so quickly in my rear view mirror that her head would spin. I would go No-Contact with her and handle all communications with her through my divorce attorney. But that is just me.

In any event, good luck to you.

What Irpprl said! Great advice. You are still atvtge initial phase and how you feel now may change in the future.

The MM's wife has a right to know, too. Do you have a plan to tell her?

To be honest, I really don't see the reason. This is so typical of Surviving Infidelity and I cannot agree with that. Not the woman does not deserve to know, but it is not this man's role to tell her. A person who is facing a trauma has also to think of telling the MM's wife? If the problem is the danger of STDs, just get your wife tested and if she is negative, the MM is negative too ad there is no need to inform her on health grounds. So what are the reasons that remain? This man belongs in HIS couple and it is not HIS DUTY to inform the MM's wife. Creating an emotional bond on this matter with this woman has no meaning, not because I fear an affair between them, but it adds more emotions to an already very difficult moment. There are so many injust things in this world and at the moment he has enough in his plate, at least this is my genuine opinion. He owes her nothing. He owes himself to move on from this situation ASAP.

She has a right to know what her betraying husband is subjecting her to, including STDs.

Lots of people have many rights to know and to do things but why are you putting this responsibility on the betrayed person is beyond my understanding.

I hope each betrayed person prioritises themselves because this is such a crucial time of their life and putting someone else's burden on their shoulders is not frankly very healthy I think. Let their spouse deal with it. The MM should have not interfered in their life and the BS should not interfere in another couple's business either. The majority of the people would do it only so that the MM has his hands full with his angry and distraught spouse, which sounds to me like a vendetta, there is no altruism in this choice.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 9:25 PM, Tuesday, May 14th]

Agree with others here, the odds she didn’t have some kind of sexual contact with MM are nearly zero. There’s a crowd-sourced truism here: emotional infidelity + physical proximity = sexual infidelity.

You will never actually reconcile without the full, ugly truth. To that end:

1. Demand she write a full timeline of EVERYTHING: her thoughts, their actions, who did what for every interaction they’ve had, both in person and other forms of communication. Give her a deadline of no more than a few days to complete this.

2. She gives you a copy and then reads her timeline to you. Watch her carefully as she does.

3. Inform her if she wants to stay married to you, she will be undergoing a polygraph where she will be asked to confirm whether the timeline is 100% complete and 100% accurate. Also have her asked whether she’s been unfaithful in any way (the examiner will define this) with anyone else since the day you two became "exclusive".

Please have the courage to follow thru with the above. It’s your best shot at R.

[This message edited by gr8ful at 8:39 PM, Tuesday, May 14th]

Lots of people have many rights to know and to do things but why are you putting this responsibility on the betrayed person is beyond my understanding.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

If the other BS in my situation would have informed me when he found out about the emotional affair, the physical affair would never have happened. He didn't want to hurt me.

Everyone has the right to have agency in their own lives. Please inform the other BS. She has the right to know she is living a lie, she needs an STD check, she's an adult, she should be able to make decisions for her own life.

I think SI occasionally overdoes the "you absolutely must tell the OBS" to the point of bludgeoning or bullying the poor BS. It comes from good intent and good data but because of the passion BS here have for it can come on too strong.

There are some rare situations where it may not be the best course of action or, more likely, it may not be an immediate course of action to take but could be exercised better in the near future. However, I think it is indeed most often the best course of action for multiple reasons:

1) The OBS deserves to know.

2) It usually works to truly, finally end the A. So many A continue to be active but hidden after only one BS learns about it but when both BS know, the pressure doubles to end it.

3) It creates accountability both for your WS and the AP. Your WS should know they have harmed both your marriage and the other one through their actions.

4) Last, but not least, the AP deserves to be hit by the karma bus. It's not attractive but I want to pummel the AP senseless and I think most BS feel the same way. That doesn't happen often and it shouldn't be a planned course of action due to major legal risk for the BS. But steering the karma bus to the AP by telling the OBS is both ethical and legal.

Related to STD risk argument Fantastic countered earlier, sure, if your WS does not have one the OBS is probably safe.... for now. But there are a lot of serial cheaters out there who could get an STD right after this A and deliver it to OBS next week.

IMO because it’s the right thing to do

To be honest, I really don't see the reason.

Out of the three people that know, only one is a decent human being. The other two have a selfish vested interest in not disclosing it. How is the poor woman supposed to figure out her life is not what she thinks it is. I am also in the camp that had there been decent people, I would not have been living a lie for as long as I did. And the body count might not have been as high… it is very different than just telling the world.

Just chiming in for "point to ponder"

I just did a 30 minute search on the question "why should a betrayed spouse inform the other betrayers spouse"

I briefly scanned about 20 entries as google listed

NOT A ONE suggested keeping the cheating a secret from the betrayed spouse of the "other person" - OR any others that should know for whatever reason such that telling them will, in long term relations, make for all to heal from the evil perpetrated by those who place no value on integrity in their personal relationship.

The caveat is to consider if informing (other than cheater's spouse) others will cause more LONG TERM harm than good.

Poser: If your husband poked your married sister, would you tell the married sisters husband? Seems to me the logic is the same.

a common phrase

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

Keeping silent is passively accepting the evil -

jason1985 - whatever decision you make - now or later - try and (in your minds eye) see what your future will be.

Read the Book "Cheating in a Nutshell" - it is worth the time - easy read - you can do the whole book in one or two evenings.

But there are a lot of serial cheaters out there who could get an STD right after this A and deliver it to OBS next week.

How would the OBS gets an STD because of other serial cheaters? There is full of serial cheaters bit as long as the OBS keeps her distance she is safe.

Fantastic, they're saying the AP who's the subject of this post could also be cheating with other women, which will continue to happen if the OBS is not informed. So they are knowingly leaving her vulnerable to STDs she could contract in the very near future, even after the A in question ends.

Jason, tell as few friends as possible and definitely no family members, is my advice. If R is the best way forward, the fewer people who know then the better your chances of success are. I told three friends, and I regret doing so (though venting is what I needed to do right after DDay). They can be leery of the good times I now share with my FWH and you never know--what if they tell people who tell people who let it all out? In fact, one did put me in a precarious position. She told her H about us... and then they had a very acrimonious divorce.

So there is at least one person out there with the knowledge to blow up our lives, who has no allegiance to me, and who may one day expose us to to harm his ex-wife, hypothetically. I'm sure the other two friends have told their husbands and friends as well. It's not good for a couple who's doing well in R.

Avoid the AP at all costs. You can't ever put yourself in a situation where you might have to socialize in the same vicinity as the AP. Move if you must.

For trust to be rebuilt your WW must put in the work. Period. It's not good for either of you for you to police her. She must want to prove it to you.

No MC for the foreseeable future! It will make you want to beat your head against the wall. Wait until your WW has been doing IC for years and has vastly improved.

And like someone else said, if you don't have kids, it's best to leave now. You're in for years and years and years of hard work with no guarantee of a happy outcome. Starting over with someone who hasn't betrayed is your best shot at happiness.

Sorry you're here. It is a terrible road to walk down--one that is so soul-sucking that if I were forced to start from the beginning again... I wouldn't.

I'll be back with more advice.

You are currently on a ruinous path.

Fantastic -

To be honest, I really don't see the reason. This is so typical of Surviving Infidelity and I cannot agree with that. Not the woman does not deserve to know, but it is not this man's role to tell her. A person who is facing a trauma has also to think of telling the MM's wife?

I think it's pretty normal to think about whether you should tell and I would argue that not telling simply adds another burden to the BS. I know I definitely did and it's a question that comes up FREQUENTLY on here. So I address why I think someone should - not that anyone HAS to do anything. I had my reasons for not doing it on d-day 1...some of which had to do with the unique problem the OBS faced in his own employment if I told him (as the OBS, the AP and my WS all worked together in a facility with very high security clearances and a policy requiring notification to upper management of they types of things that AP and WS were doing at the work site and potential termination if he failed to notify)...but a lot of which had to do with my own fears about blowing the whole thing up and "losing" my WS.

IMO this is something a BS should consider - and yeah, I wish the OBS had contacted me when he found out what he did. It could have saved me some time if nothing else. Infidelity is not fair. Like at all. Neither is life. This is all part and parcel of the horrible burdens a BS is saddled with via actions not of their own making.

It also was a big read flag to me that OP indicated his WS and AP were happy about his decision not to tell anyone - of course they are. But there is a woman sitting somewhere with a new baby whose husband is messing around with someone else. and the AP and the WS are relying on the OP's silence to keep their dirty secret. No thanks. By d-day 2 I told OBS immediately (actually I gave my WS 10 minutes to decide if he was going to tell the OBS or if I was - right then - he was a coward and chose me). And I told him not because I thought that would end the A (and indeed it did not end it) but because I could not longer be complicit in keeping their secret as I felt like it made me a party to the lie. Again, no thanks. I felt 100 times better once I had told him as that burden was no longer mine.

At the end of the day, fair or not, that was another burden for me to consider as it is most every BS on this site if the AP has a relationship of their own.

A couple of points:
The big one is that until you have a good-enough feeling that you know the true extent of the affair then your chances of reconciliation are non-existent.
This – as you can imagine – is a key issue. Learning NOW that they had sex will cause less damage than learning about it in a year or two. This is so important.
I sometimes suggest people offer an amnesty. Like you tell her that if she tells you the truth NOW and in the next 2-3 days – even if it hurts – you will commit to reconciling for the next three months. But follow it up with the statement that it’s hard to believe that two grown-ups with all the opportunities and openings could have limited their interaction to occasional random back-of-bar snogging. There is simply too much opportunity to meeting in cars, offices, at home, cheap motels... This doubt will prevent YOU from possibly reconciling.
Offer her the amnesty, but also let her know, you are most likely to demand she pass a polygraph before you commit to IC or MC to confirm that you have the truth AND that she has shown you she trusts you with the truth.

Please friend – If you learn NOW that they went on an all-out-sex-rampage at a sex-club... will do less damage than learning half a year from now that he touched her privates.

I’m not too big on everyone having to know, but I do think stakeholders do need to know. His wife is definitely a stakeholder. I think it might also be important for YOU to have someone in-life to talk to.

Do you really think having the OM in your social circle will work? It does seem they had opportunities to meet at bars and nights out, so it seems they are in that group. Think you will be fine next time there is a garden-party and you have to listen to OM share his fishing-stories? I think it’s inevitable that you remove him from that social circle. Frankly – best way to do that is let his wife know and then make it clear you don’t want to be at events he’s invited to.

Think the man that didn’t respect you enough to let your wife alone is going to tell you anything of interest? His only goal for now is to limit his damage. If he thinks you don’t know they had sex (that is – if they did) he will lie. If he fears you will expose his interests will be in minimizing his part and maximizing your wife’s part. What if he simply tells you that your wife moaned with pleasure and talked constantly about how he was bigger than you? Sorry for being this graphic, but these are things we have heard about on this site. Things you can never verify or confirm and/or things that can do no positive for you and your wife regarding reconciliation. IMHO there is NOTHING to be gained by talking to OM. Nothing at all, but a lot of risk.

IC or MC?
Did the marriage cheat? Was there something YOU did that made it inevitable for her to have an affair?
Please – if you are going to say yes to that then don’t bother... if YOU or the MARRIAGE made her cheat there is no way to minimize the possibility of the marriage "making" her cheat again. Like if you are late home from work three days in a row would that justify a new affair?
SHE cheated, therefore IC is better.
MC isn’t so much about handling the affair as it is about communications.