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Adolfo said

Saying things like she isn't comfortable being intimate right now is the same as saying "I fucked AP, who I'd only been emotional with for two months, but after 15 years with you, I have to get used to you again!"

OP, Adolfo's quote is an example of something it might be helpful to share with your WW. She likely has no idea the impact she is creating in your heart and mind unless you tell her. Although I do think if she was reading about the impact of betrayal she might pick up on some of this.

I just want to say, that no matter how you get there, for me, I’d want to know that she has him completely out of her heart and has nothing but disdain for him before I’d ever start trying to rebuild something with her.

My approach would be different than yours. You do you. But I would let her know I love her, I desire her, but that I no longer trust her and cannot be 2nd best in any relationship with a woman I love.

And that I am moving on without her to heal until she can fix what is broken in her.

You are being supportive. I understand. In the long run though I think you’ll just let her drag this on much longer than it would have if you just told her exactly what you need to see and move on without her until she’s gotten all the way there.

The way you are going about this allows her to continue to have you in her life and him in her heart.

Please think about it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:23 AM, Monday, May 27th]

How are you doing New Beginnings?

I’m doing alright. Things changed on this topic since my last post so I wanted to give an update.

My wife changed her tone on wanting to have sex over the past couple of weeks. There had been a few changes in our lives that I think led to this and I’ve been contemplating them more if they are healthy reasons or not. The biggest things that stand out as relevant to me in her shift in attitude is

1) Our communication has become more healthy in general. I can bring up triggering moments or thoughts in a non-threatening or aggressive manner and the majority of the time she is consoling and comforts me
for whatever the topic is.

2) I started a new job that I had been interviewing for pre DDay. If you see my post on JFO you can see how my career was one of the things that created tension for us. This point has been more negative that positive for me as it’s like she sees my potential once again but I know that I am still the same. To see her proud and excited about what I’ve landed and for her to see how I’m perceived within the organization is nice, but also annoying. I decided to pivot from my own business to a great position at a great company, I did it quickly for the circumstances and executed as I always have. I told her during therapy that this makes me feel used and I could see her take this in because 1) there’s truth to it and 2) I wanted to let her know as I have our entire relationship that my ass may be dumb but I’m no dumb ass (kidding but serious).

3) She has seen her AP without rose colored glasses for the first time IMO. There have been facts finally
realized about how events unfolded where she finally shows some sort of signs of life that this person isn’t all she hyped him up to be. While I thought this would be promising it’s been more frustrating to me to see her take to me more with this attitude. It angers me that any positivity, affection and love was projected onto some other person who could abandon his own wife and children to have an affair and risk all of that.

We had our 10 year wedding anniversary this past weekend. We went downtown for a staycation and had a good time together. For the days leading up to it and this past weekend we had a lot of sex. It was nice but I also felt a little different after it was more readily available. It’s still nice but it’s taken an ungiven "need" off of the table and has helped me see everything more clearly in a way.

Meanwhile, a fair question for you to be asking your WW is whether she would still be coming back to you even if AP were *not* married. You do NOT want to be your WW's "safe choice" so to speak--i.e., 'I felt a real connection with OM but since he disqualified himself I realize you are my best option so I am coming back to you'

Meanwhile, a fair question for you to be asking your WW is whether she would still be coming back to you even if AP were *not* married. You do NOT want to be your WW's "safe choice" so to speak--i.e., 'I felt a real connection with OM but since he disqualified himself I realize you are my best option so I am coming back to you'

Let me share something with you new beginnings.

It’s highly documented that women are more likely to have exit affairs. I had one, a lot of the women ws had them as well.

However, we can learn that we are wrong in our thinking. I wanted my husband to be more emotionally connected with me. The way I shared that wasn’t constructive AND after some therapy I saw that it was me making emotional connection less feasible.

You can’t be seen and heard if you aren’t living authentically and communicating.

My ap dumped me too. He was married.

It was the greatest gift of all. I would have kept going and my life would have been completely screwed up. Instead, I dig in and saw the things I was blaming H for I was equally or even more so responsible for.

Will your wife realize this? Maybe or maybe not. That is a journey though. I just wouldn’t be told I am second choice by people on the internet.

My husband is a far superior man to my ap. In so many different ways. I am so thankful he gave me another chance.

That being said, go slowly, take your time to recover. If you aren’t ready for divorce watch what happens. If she isn’t committed to her accountability, to becoming authentic, repairable and trustworthy, do not settle. But if she does these things and learns from her bad decisions I think it’s not true that you have to be second choice. I don’t even think most of the time an AP is an appropriate or viable choice. So, don’t be goaded to believe you are not worthy of what you decide you want.

But be careful and watch for evolution- that takes time- don’t go for automatic resolution either. Focus on you, what you want, your healing, and if she continues to grow, then you can decide if you want to reconcile. That process takes years. I don’t think your wife yet has her head anywhere straight, so be aware of that before you invest too much. Focus on individual healing and if you get to the point of starting to reconcile then you will have far easier time with two healed or at least partially healed people than you have today.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:56 PM, Monday, June 3rd]

I think my concern for OP is quite fair and reasonable though.

@hikingout, you and the other fWWs on here talk a lot about the mental gymnastics that come with having an affair. It is no secret on here that I find that perspective to be extremely challenging. I still do after all these months. I believe instead, just as strongly now as ever infact, that OP should instead be taking WW's actions AT FACE VALUE, that it would better serve him.

His WW had an affair because she WANTED to. And oftentimes people want to cheat because they find AP to be more attractive. And sometimes people do leave for their AP and start a new life.

ETA: I don't want to derail this thread so much as give the OP the benefit of my thinking. You are young OP, you do NOT want to be with a woman who gives you any indication of being her safe choice or fallback option.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:50 PM, Monday, June 3rd]

Won’t be fooled

My objection to the way you speak is based on telling men things in a way that is extremely hurtful.

I just find when someone has just had the biggest trauma one can experience and they sit with self esteem in the dirt and their lives in complete chaos telling them "your wife is only picking you because she can’t have him" is maybe kicking a guy when he is down.I know you don’t see it that way, but it’s why I responded that way, not to defend her but to soften what you said to him.

.And besides, you have no idea what she thinks because you already admitted you find the "mental gymnastics" confusing- so perhaps don’t guess at what she might think because you can’t think like that. I know you want what is best for him but sometimes what you write comes off as "don’t be a putz". Not exactly empowering.

Fundamentally though, I have come to believe we think some ways the same. Reconciliation shouldn’t be a choice people make this early on. I also think for most divorce is not the option they are ready to take. We both think he should consider himself and his healing.

However, some people do want reconciliation and that takes understanding that people can change the way they see things when they go on a path of working to be more self aware and to fix some of what they broke. It does take years and I have cautioned the OP on that.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:12 PM, Monday, June 3rd]

Yes, I often do think it helps the OP to hear things in a tone that is jarring, as ANGER is a very useful emotion especially for BHs that are rushing into R--which is what we have happening here. (And I am going by ACTIONS, celebrating an anniversary is indeed an action which signifies that OP has already decided on R.)

And finally, there are A LOT of WS who "settle" in getting back with their BS. As in, they view AP as the love of their lives but decide that relationship cannot work because AP dumped them, or other insurmountable obstacles that make them star-crossed lovers. I REALLY STRONGLY believe that a BS has to VERY skeptical of a WS wanting back in, and that it is on WS to show that indeed they want the BS.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:19 PM, Monday, June 3rd]

I don’t disagree that some ws are not worthy and do not become worthy of reconciliation. I covered that.

I think anger has its place.

I probably will never like your delivery just the same as you think I am full of mental gymnastics. So in that we will co-exist.

However, if I think what you are saying is hurtful to the poster then I may soften it. It is what it is. Now we can go back to helping the Op which I have no doubt we both genuinely want to do.

@hikingout, Fair enough.

Oh and I did change the greeting to won’t be fooled. You are right. I am not wanting to confuse the two. He was actually very helpful to me in my journey. I just am bad with names sometimes. Thanks for the correction.

No worries. I edited my post too. And I don't mean mental gymnastics to imply that you are "wrong" in any way. I instead believe that OP should be VERY skeptical of his WW including her motives for coming back.

You did the work @hikingout. That makes you an EXTREMELY RARE WS indeed!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:31 PM, Monday, June 3rd]

Thanks. I agree not all ws will or do. But it’s important to know some will in time. It’s too soon this early to know how things will land for new beginnings but I agree people shouldn’t go trying to fix the relationship until they fix themselves, I just wanted to make it known it is also possible the ws wants the bs and isn’t settling even after everything. Possible and definite are really two different things.

Anyway op sorry for the thread jacks. Maybe our deliberation still gave you insight you can hopefully use.

I do appreciate the insights. I’m not naive in thinking she has the purest intentions by staying. And her having an exit affair is exactly what I summed this up to when I first discovered. She always has been extremely bad at expressing herself emotionally and always let me do the hard work with literally everything. I owned this as a hard worker and what I thought was fulfilling my duty as a great husband. I’d still be doing this if she never would have done this so I can thank the affair for expecting more from my partner.

We had a pretty big blow up last night. She gets fragile and back tracks saying how she doesn’t like how we had a good few weeks and that one thing can trigger me to "reset" us. That comment itself has come up more than once and it’s triggering in and of itself.

I am pragmatic and realistic enough to know this won’t happen overnight. However sitting around waiting for her to consistently put in the work I want and need to see out of her is just flat out exhausting. I love my wife, but the downside risk of having to wait years for her to come back is just a lot. If we didn’t have our four year old daughter I think I’d have a much more aggressive stance on D and be really hard on R, but I went into this knowing that no matter the outcome, I’m not gonna regret shit and I still feel that way. I ask myself nearly daily if I’d regret replying to the attorney’s next step emails, paying the retainer and letting it rip. It’s a feeling of regret not fear that outweighs that. She may have been more attracted to the AP at the time of the affair, but objectively I know that I’m a catch. More
so than my wife (especially with the newly added character choices), and especially her AP. Not to sound conceited but fear of losing the best I could get is definitely not a consideration. I just love her, our family and our daughter. But shit I hate going through this.

No I am sorry you misunderstood. I don’t think she will act like this for years and you should still stay. I think this part of it has to run its course shortly or you will be exhausted.

I am saying healing, both your healing from this, and growing a new relationship takes years. It takes a long consistent time to earn back trust and learn to communicate and make boundaries. There early months are the worst. If they don’t gradually get better, I wouldn’t stay. But if she starts seeing the trauma she has caused and really willing to look at herself closely and take accountability and make amends, it will still be shaky ground in your relationship for a long time.

So, when I said years, I meant healing, rebuilding, and it’s not a linear process.

I have not heard of any BH who regretted getting D. I HAVE heard of a lot of BH who regretted staying w their WW. Just saying.

I believe instead, just as strongly now as ever infact, that OP should instead be taking WW's actions AT FACE VALUE....
His WW had an affair because she WANTED to.

 Those sentences seem to contradict each other.. Taking actions at face value is a matter of the BS - all BSes - responding to actions at face value, irrespective of the motivation for the action. It's impossible to deduce motivation from an action in itself. I suspect all actions can come from widely varied motivations.

....there are A LOT of WS who "settle" in getting back with their BS.

We know, from sources like Peggy Vaughn's Help for Therapists..., that lost of couples choose to stay together from something like inertia, and I'm OK with calling that 'settling,' but where's you data for your assertion that 'lots' of WSes stay while pining for their aps?

Besides, the whole point of SI is to help people to R or D from strength, without settling.

I REALLY STRONGLY believe that a BS has to VERY skeptical of a WS wanting back in, and that it is on WS to show that indeed they want the BS.

not controversial.

I have not heard of any BH who regretted getting D. I HAVE heard of a lot of BH who regretted staying w their WW. Just saying.

I've read testimony from BHes who remarry their hopefully former WSes. Given your admitted perspective, would you recognize regretful D'ed BSes? We certainly read of D'ed BHes who are very sad after their Ds. But I don't read much in the D/S forum, so I do my best not to draw conclusions about D.

You would be perfectly justified in filing and having her served just based on her clear lack of remorse and empathy. It’s a cliche that you need to let go of the outcome and just act to get out of infidelity. But it’s a cliche because it’s usually true.
Kids are resilient. While divorce isn’t great, staying in a marriage out of fear or regret isn’t a great option either.
You sound like you have healthy self esteem. You know you deserve better than this.
Talk to a lawyer or three and put the onus on her to work on what she broke. You’ll come out of this.

Stay strong.

[This message edited by 1994 at 11:58 PM, Tuesday, June 4th]

@sisoon, you and I just have different styles, it is what it is. To answer your questions, I already know in my gut what is true and what is not true. My gut NEVER steers me wrong. I don't need to see what this study or that person with a PhD says. Many of these authors are just trying to sell books anyway.

Show me a BH "regretful" about D'ing his WW and I will show you a BH who still has not figured out how much better off he can be without a woman who cheated on him!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 4:25 AM, Wednesday, June 5th]