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Tony, you found out about your wife’s pre-marriage infidelity, and then you had 5 kids with her, in that order. What was your thinking on that? Were you being tormented with these thoughts while you were having the children, or is it a newer thing?

Tony, you found out about your wife’s pre-marriage infidelity, and then you had 5 kids with her, in that order. What was your thinking on that? Were you being tormented with these thoughts while you were having the children, or is it a newer thing?

Since I was committed to forgiving and reconciling, I didn't want to deprive myself of having children. I was already in my 30's. If I had of left her, it would have taken me minimum 2 years to get my head together and potentially meet and trust another woman again. Probably much longer. So this was my one and only shot of making a family work (I always wanted a lot of kids).

I'm sad to say that the very first though in my mind when I saw my first child pop out of my wife was "Is he mine?" I hate myself for ever thinking that. It ruined that for me.

Kids distract you from things like this, to an extent. But it's always there. Comes up time and time again.

He may not even have known she was engaged

He did. Or at least he knew she was in a committed relationship.

One of the things I made her do, in front of me, was text him and tell him that she'd told me everything. I didn't want him thinking they had a dirty little secret. I wanted it known that I was fully aware and informed.

So she texted him: "I told Tony everything that happened between us. Please don't contact either of us again."

A minute later she got a reply: "What the fuck did you do that for? Jesus Christ."

That response of his pretty much confirmed for me that he was in on it, they had obviously talked about me before, he knew she was with me and that there was a secret between them.

I wanted so badly to delve deeper into this with her. I wanted to understand their encounters.

Months later, she actually told casually one day, "I need to let you know that there were emotions involved with him. It wasn't just a sexual thing."

Again, I didn't delve and to this day I wish I did. There was obviously a history between them developing some kind of emotional connection at work leading up to their physical stuff. It wasn't a simple, sexual encounter. I think she saw him as a potential alternative to me since we weren't married yet, and much of relationship up to that point had been across oceans.

I think at some point, she made a decision to choose me over him. She even said to me at one point, "You won. I chose you." (yeah right - I really feel like a winner here)

[This message edited by tonygameel at 4:04 AM, Tuesday, July 2nd]

Since I was committed to forgiving and reconciling, I didn't want to deprive myself of having children.

I had three after the affair, so I know where you are coming from. I actually didn’t think about it much at all for years until something unrelated dredged it back up, but I get dealing with it after you’ve had kids.

Again, I didn't delve and to this day I wish I did.

It is not too late. At all.

I would suggest don’t start delving until you’ve begun healing, though. You need to make progress in that first, to set the context for revisiting the past. You want as your goal the truth, whatever it is, not some desired story.

I would suggest don’t start delving until you’ve begun healing, though. You need to make progress in that first, to set the context for revisiting the past. You want as your goal the truth, whatever it is, not some desired story.

Even though curiosity kills me - I want to fully understand what happened and what the dynamic was (she purged her conversations with him in messenger so I was never able to read them to help me grasp the nature of their relationship. I also am so traumatized by the trickle truthing that it terrifies to ask anything more. I'm terrified that she'd come out with something like, "We did actually have sex and I just couldn't tell you." or find out they met up a lot more than I was originally told.

New discoveries could jeopardize what's left of our marriage after so long.

This is one of the reasons why I'm scared of therapy because if it involves her sharing more information, and I learn more horrific details after all these years, I probably won't be able to cope and divorce will happen.

I also am so traumatized by the trickle truthing that it terrifies to ask anything more. I'm terrified that she'd come out with something like, "We did actually have sex and I just couldn't tell you." or find out they met up a lot more than I was originally told.

I get it. My wife flat out lied to me to minimize what she did. There was no internet back then, so I winged it…poorly. When I revisited it all, and really thought about it, it was pretty obvious what a lot of the real truth was. Of course she did this. Of course she did that. Of course she felt that way. Duh. So I just assumed what was common-sensical from then on, and focused on whether I can accept that.

In the early stages, the normal BS wants to hear that it wasn’t so bad, that it could have been worse. Normal WS I am sure pick up on that, and give the BS what they want. It was ending, no feelings, just once, etc. Both parties are near-term happy. Thanks for lying.

You sound like you are still there, worried about what the truth may actually be. Consider if you can shift goal to finding the truth whatever it is. And whatever it is, be prepared to be thankful for her giving it to you. Literally thank her. The truth will make the puzzle pieces fit, and that’s what you should want. The truth can also set her free, so she is not living a double life.

This is one of the reasons why I'm scared of therapy because if it involves her sharing more information

Your therapy needn’t involve her at all. Your struggle is more about your relation to the past than the specifics of the past. Does that make sense?

Keep posting. Mine is one perspective, lots of others here too.

You’ve been heard!

Tonygameel,

I am sorry you didn’t reply when I asked what the confrontation with the guy would mean to you, what you would like to gain from it and what tells you that what he might say would be the truth.

Another point is having sex, complete penetration or "just" oral sex? Does it really matter? My husband’s affair lasted four and a half YEARS. They obviously had sex in all its forms and MANY TIMES.

It obviously hurts me BUT what hurts me more is the deceit, the fact that he had created a complicity with another woman, that they were planning their business trips together (luckily he did not spend our money on his affair!!)but he made me believe he was going on his own. He spoke to me of loneliness when in fact he had a"partner in crime" who knew my private things, such as where I work, what time I used to go home etc I felt violated in my privacy. He always gave me the details of the hotels he was going to WITH HER, so he was exactly where he was telling me, except he omitted WHO he was with. For me these are the things that hurt and crushed my trust. She was making public posts that gave me lots of information. After she found out I knew some things and where I found out about them, she blocked me on social media instead of being more careful what she posts (I know for example at what time and where she goes running every day and could be tempted to confront her just to scare her or make her uncomfortable! Only an idiot posts such information PUBLICLY!)

[This message edited by Fantastic at 2:05 PM, Tuesday, July 2nd]

Ok, the guy knew you were engaged. So what?

Who owed you loyalty? Him or your fiancé, now wife?

Yes, he is an accomplice but whose major responsibility is it? He could have respected your relationship but so could and should your fiancé! He is just a cheater as is your wife and many spouses of the people who write here.

My point, sorry for expressing my points so bluntly, is that it does not do any good to you to concentrate your energy on him, you should concentrate solely on yourself and your spouse because the vows are between you two, the marriage is between you two and the most hurt person of the two is YOU. Channel your energy into what can help you find peace because no matter what you do, you cannot change the past! If she gave him kisses, blow jobs or sex, the important piece of information is that for a certain amount of time she did not play as part of your team, she was selfish and invested her thoughts and energy in another person and betrayed you.

BUT IF YOU CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS, THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 2:04 PM, Tuesday, July 2nd]

A

If I had of left her, it would have taken me minimum 2 years to get my head together and potentially meet and trust another woman again. Probably much longer. So this was my one and only shot of making a family work (I always wanted a lot of kids).

Really? Read again and again your words and tell me if you see love or opportunism. You were young and could have chosen to wait. Marrying a person because you have a plan, even as noble as to have children, sounds horrible.

What I mean to say is that you only see your wife as having made mistakes, but you have to realise and make peace with the fact that you messed it up, too. Everyone makes mistakes. Don’t dwell in regret and pain, it doesn’t help you at all.

This is one of the reasons why I'm scared of therapy because if it involves her sharing more information, and I learn more horrific details after all these years, I probably won't be able to cope and divorce will happen.

I agree with HouseofPlane, therapy about your PTSD really isn’t about her.

However, this paragraph here explains a lot to me of how you’ve remained stuck for a decade. You are morbidly fascinated by the truth and you are utterly terrified of ever getting it.

Friend, you need to pursue the truth, no matter what it might be. If you are going to remain in relationship, you need to give your self permission to ask the horrible questions you have suppressed for 10 years and you need believable answers to them that your mind can accept. And if you can’t get that, either because she won’t tell you or you find it so disgusting that you can’t bear to hear it, then you need to move on and find a new life that isn’t bound to this haunting betrayal.

Your own words here are that you remain in misery because you can’t stand to hear the truth. But I have it on good authority that the truth will set you free.

Tony, your marriage is already in jeopardy. You wouldn't be here on SI if it wasn't.

If there's a recurring theme to all of your posts, it's that you've been entirely motivated by fear and the sunk cost fallacy. You didn't want to delve into your suspicions about her overseas activity because you just wanted to trust her. You didn't question her absurd version of events because you were afraid you wouldn't find someone else to marry and have kids with. Now you have the marriage and the kids and you're afraid of losing all of that by putting her feet to the fire and getting the real truth.

So what's next... you keep living on top of buried toxic waste for another decade or 2 and then tell yourself you can't do anything about it because you don't want to lose half your pension and upset your grandkids? How much more of your life and your sanity are you willing to sacrifice on the altar of lies?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:13 PM, Tuesday, July 2nd]

I've taken the first step and booked in to see a trauma/PTSD psychologist in 4 weeks (earliest I could get in). I need to fix this.

Based on the many comments offered here, I see that this is really about me dealing with what's going on in my own head, not my wife. She's been a good wife and mother since our marriage started - I can't really fault her there. I just can't let go of the trauma of the revelation and humiliation (I've actually had other phobias and anxiety issues become a major issue in recent years which I think may be a result of hanging on to festering trauma).

I just have to fix this.

The past two weeks have been an intense psychological struggle. I literally feel like I'm back sitting on the couch hearing her first confession nearly a decade ago. I feel like she cheated on me yesterday. The sights, the sounds - it's so tangible in my mind right now it's like a real life movie playing in my head. I feel retraumatized. Probably the worst PTSD episode I've had in over 7 years.

Today I read back over our messenger conversations in the entire year leading up to her cheating. Really opened my eyes to how shitty our relationship actually was. Not justifying her lies and behavior, but we were never in a good place. I was certainly open to meeting someone else in that time as well.

I honestly feel bad sharing my story here as I read the other experiences of people here married for years - even decades - and having a spouse cheat in extreme ways over long periods. It diminishes my experience as I realize that some people have gone through absolute hell. Unfathomable for me. This leads me to ask myself, "Am I overreacting? Is my experience actually not that bad, but I'm just insecure and can't handle it? Do I have sexual insecurities that make it hard for me stomach her pursuing other potential men when our relationship was unstable and poor at the time?"

Hopefully this trauma psychologist can help me make sense of all this. Shame I have to wait so long to see him. Then it'll be trying to squeeze as much out of a 60 minute session as possible.

You’re not overreacting. My experience isn’t more painful than yours. Cheating hurts really fucking badly and it doesn’t matter the nature of it. No one is getting a gold medal in worst pain experience.

Remember, your wife cheated on you before you got married and still married you after. She didn’t have to.

The only thing I ever suggested you need to drop was revenge against OM, the pain and suffering from her cheating on you, and from almost a decade of basically rugsweeping is very real and needs to be addressed.

I honestly feel bad sharing my story here…leads me to ask myself, "Am I overreacting?

NO! It’s your life, you are reacting to what you feel.

Keep posting, glad you are seeking help!

Tony, I know I am showing up late to this conversation but I don't frequent the forum as much as I used to. I couldn't help but respond as I carried very similar pain for years.

First off, you did well by getting into IC. I fought that and tried to self heal and if I had to do it all over again, I would go to IC.

Regarding the OM... Two of my fWWs OM are both dead today (from natural causes, not me). I'm here to tell you as a friend, their death did not help my pain. Please do yourself a favor and let go of any concern for the OM.

Someone already mentioned it, but I will say that you'd do yourself a big favor by focusing wasted efforts on things that benefit you instead. In project management there is an analogy that effort does not equal work. You can spin your wheels all day long and not get any work done. Please focus your efforts on getting the work you need done. Your IC will help you define what needs work, and what has no value.

You've had some great advice here and I'm not sure I can add any wisdom. I just wanted to take the time to let you know you've been heard. I understand the humiliation. I unknowingly shook hands with one of the OM in front of WW and her coworkers. When I found out what I had done, I felt like the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth. I don't feel that way today about it becuase I wouldn't want to trade places with any one of them. I know I walked away the better person and you did too.

You are going to get through this Tony. Be good to yourself and I hope you find the peace you deserve very soon.

Well done on booking IC. Don’t have super high expectations of session one changing everything. It really does take time. But the journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step and you just took it.

To your idea of "others had it worse, I’m might be over-reacting". Please stop thinking like that. Your reactions are your own and they are valid. My wife had a three year affair and involved my kids, and I read your story and I feel your pain. You aren’t lesser betrayed, you are just betrayed.

I encourage you to allow your heart and mind to pursue healing and joy, regardless of where that path might lead. Your wife married you under false pretenses. You can forgive that if you can and want to, but it truly is reasonable that you can’t or don’t. You matter, Tony, as much as any person that has ever lived.

what is she saying now that you’ve talked to her.

Is she supportive? Dismissive? Something else?

I unknowingly shook hands with one of the OM in front of WW and her coworkers. When I found out what I had done, I felt like the biggest dumbass on the face of the earth.

This was hard for me to read. Heart dropped, want to throw up. It triggered the heck out of me just now.

Same exact thing happened to me. I shook his hand, stood next to him at a work function at a bar, drinking a beer with him and wanting to be his friend (she came and pulled me away - I know now she was terrified of me being alone with him and learning things).

Looking back on me shaking his hand and being friendly is almost as traumatic as the cheating itself. I must have looked like the most pathetic loser on the planet at that moment (his buddies were there too and probably all knew exactly what had gone on, and saw me being super friendly with him). The shame of that memory is unbearable for me. This is why I want the guy to see a different, more violent side of me.

I hope I can get to the place you're at, and soon. I'm just not even close yet.

I have a strong feeling that our shame cannot be overcome with forgiveness and manning up for the kids.

There is no revenge or justice without consequences, because you are a good man. Be a good father to your kids, but don’t be a chump to your past. I decided yesterday to file for D and be an amazing father. Eventually, I will find a woman worthy of a good man and I will be with her out of love, not obligation. I am already feeling more self respect than I have had in years.

You don’t have to come to the same conclusion that I did, but don’t let that guy be the most important and impactful man in your life. Right now he is that guy and he isn’t worth it, you are worth more than that.

I think this is hard for women to understand.

As a man, one of the most traumatic aspects of all this is the shame and humiliation. It's one thing to be cheated on, but to be humiliated on top of that made me want to die. I felt completely emasculated - laughed at behind my back. My wife's entire workplace knew that this guy had been playing around with my fiancee (and they all knew we were due to marry soon). I was the joke of the office.

We tried marriage counseling. All female therapists. It was like putting fuel on the fire for me. They just don't get it.

I need to sit down with a man who's got life experience. Someone who can speak to me plainly from one man to another. Unfortunately, the field of psychology seems to be predominantly young females. This is probably driving a lot of guys like me to suicide because there's nobody to turn to. There is literally nobody to talk to. Hence why I'm writing on a forum.

Brother, I'm so sorry that you find yourself here and as I read your opening post, I could sense your pain and I relived the days in my own life as I discovered my wife's affair. As I read your posts, this one jumped out at me and I want to do what I think I tend to do well here on SI, challenge assumptions and some of our self-talk.

I think it is important to ask yourself why you have so much shame and humilitation about this whole situation. Hear me out here, oh I hate speaking in generalizations this broad, but I promise I'm making a point, men in this society are conditioned to be stoic, emotionless, the "man of the house", and our definitions of what is manly and masculine is conditioned into us thorugh mass media, churches, etc. A part of us as men have been conditioned to see our partner as a failing of us as men in some way and part of that conditioning is because the male archetype we've been conditioned that we need to be is linked to our virility as men in the bedroom, preying on a very animalistic desire to mate that exists in us all. Again, I think the shame and humiliation that is triggered from a wife's infidelity is conditioned into us and we need to learn that we don't have to carry that shame or humiliation, it is part of how we are conditioned to respond, but we can do more than our programming if you will, we are like Data in Star Trek: TNG, always stirving to be better than our programming.

It was just my observation as I read your posts that you are dealing with tremendous hurt that has not gone away. Part of me wants to tell you that I think what I said above is linked...not to say that infideility isn't traumatic, because it is, but trauma responses are defined by cultural conditioning. What one culture sees as "normal" or "accepted" could be considered traumatic...think of language, I am bilingual in both Spanish and English, with a wife from El Salvador. In El Salvador, the word "bicho" loosely tranlates to boy or your boy like "ese hombre es mi bicho" and it's common, but in other countries, it is slang word similar to how we use the word "dick" in English...say that word to a Puerto Rican and they are going to react compeltely differently than a Salvadoreño, because their culture has conditioned them to respond to that phrase differently. I know my example is a touch silly and no disrespect to my brothers and sisters from PR or mis hermanos guancos, but I hope it sort of paints the picture of the point I'm trying to get across. When we become aware of our conditioned responses to something like this, we are able to analyze them, pick them apart and make more conscious choices to respond differently. You need to be able to forgive yourself for the decisions you made to stay and to have a family with this woman. We follow our hearts and make decisions to stay that looking back may not have been the right decision. You have to ask yourself the serious question of whether you are going to honestly stay in that prison you put yourself in or allow yourself to make different choices, be they staying and healing, or divorcing and also healing.

I think that could really go a long ways towards helping you find it within yourself to forgive yourself, because you seem to have forgiven her for her part in things, but you also still harbor a fair amount of rage towards the AP this far out. I gotta ask you this, all this time that you have been ruminating on him and obsessing about what you want to do to him (trust me brother, we all get it, infidelity stirs up some strong emotions), how many times do you think he has thought about you? I mean, you may be asking yourself, but why we he think about me...that's not really a fair question...but that is entirely my point, this guy has moved on with his life, your wife has gone NC and moved out of the country, seems highly unlikely he will part of your lives unless you intentionally put him right back into your lives. You have given far too much energy and time, time that you rightfully pointed out in a post is energy and life force we only get so much of...to this man. He is living rent free in your head. I get it, he pursued a woman he knew was married and here is where I think you are struggling, your body is giving you signals that your wife never gave you the full truth. I don't buy for one second that she had enough privacy, time and access for oral sex but not enough for "The Show", adults with access to each other not sleeping together would be more of a shock than them actually doing it, which is why it is so hard to believe that story she fed you. Who he was though is in the end very inconsequential, because he was available and willing to particpate in this shit, not what the kids today would call a "high value man" to begin with. I'm by no means trying to downplay the pain and agony this man has caused in your life, but only to point out that we BHs can get into our own heads with stuff, and again, we are conditioned to hold up this idealized version of what a masculine man looks like and guys like that who are masculine, tough, rugged don't get cheated on by what we perceive as inferior men...when that runs up agains what happened, it adds layers and layers to the trauma, because it really cuts you deeper than you should allow it to cut you.