SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I originally came to this site because I had been betrayed by my partner.

I did not allow him to try to rugsweep, he worked on him, and we worked on our relationship, and eventually I let it go, and eventually it just became part of our past as far as I was concerned.

Years later, life got tough and he cheated again.

But that’s not even really why I am writing this.

I am writing this because back then when I found this site, I eventually admitted that when I was younger, I was an AP to a married man. One person here understandably had a real problem with me after that. I was honest here, that the man’s wife eventually discovered what we were doing, and contacted me, and I would not give her any information, I kept telling her she needed to talk to her husband and not me.

In hindsight, 20 years later, I know how wrong I was, but I’m still not sure that since she already knew her husband had been cheating with me, and I didn’t deny it, whether me answering her questions would’ve really helped her more than it would’ve cause her more pain. She had the basic facts, and at the time, I didn’t want to add to the harm I’d caused her, with details. Whether it was wrong or right, that’s what I felt at the time.

They eventually divorced a few years later. When I heard about it, I felt really bad, because even though he was a serial cheater and I knew it when I was fooling with him, I felt awful about the fact that I’d cheated with him, and how that may have played a part in them eventually getting divorced. I wasn’t the only person he cheated with, but I felt bad about having been a part of his shit, period.

After all of that, I started working on myself, and being a better person in every way that I recognized I could try to be. That included working on things about myself that I felt made it okay for me to be an AP for a married man when I did that.

And after all of that work to try to be a better me, I ended up committing myself and my life, to a cheater.

I can’t even be mad if the man in my past, his wife hoped and prayed that one day I would feel the pain she felt. If she did, her wish has come true, even though I’m not the same person I was back then.

So maybe karma really is a thing. I’ve grown so much, and would never do some of the things I did when I was younger. But maybe I am reaping now, what I sowed back then.

This is kind of a letter to BS’s who are hung up on the AP’s their spouses betrayed them with. I wasn’t the only woman that man cheated on his wife with, before and after me, but I know that what I did with him was my own choice, and there is nothing that makes that okay. I moved on to work on myself and be a better person, and would never do something like that again, but that doesn’t erase what I did with him and how I harmed his wife.

And maybe there is sometimes karma that BS’s don’t know about. Because she doesn’t know anything about me and my current life, but now I can’t help but think about what I did back then, and how I participated in wrecking her marriage and her life while I’m going through what I’m going through now.

Thank you for coming back on here, Pretty Lies, I know that this could not be an easy thread for you to write. I am happy to hear you are R'd (if I am understanding your post correctly)

No we are not R’d. I thought we were, but he cheated again.

I didn’t write that post to really talk bout my cheater. But moreso to express that I am very well aware of the pain I’ve cause others by being a part of infidelity, and now that I am the recipient of the same kind of shit sandwich, I just want other people that have had the same kind of shit sandwich served to them, to know, that maybe karma really is a thing, even if they aren’t privy to it being served. Just because they don’t see or know about karma being served, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.

I don't believe in karma because to do so is to believe that every BS on here did something here to deserve being cheated on.

I do believe that bad choices and/or bad judgment-- if they remain unrecognized and uncorrected-- eventually lead to bad outcomes.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:53 AM, Tuesday, January 14th]

I'm sorry your WS cheated again. I think you can take pride in redeeming yourself and writing calmly and honestly.

What's going on, if you care to tell us? When was the most recent betrayal? What are you doing to heal?

I agree with @Bluer, if karma is real and always working, then I must have done something horrible to deserve what I got.

OP, I'm not trying to suggest that what you did was OK in any way. What I am saying is no one deserves to feel the pain of betrayal. Nothing justifies the behavior, but there are mitigating circumstances like your young age at the time. IMO, and others may disagree, you didn't manifest this bad thing many years later by something you did as a younger person. I think you should maybe be a little more gentle and understanding with yourself; you're going through one of the hardest things a person can go through. IMO, giving yourself a tiny bit of grace during the hard time is appropriate.

I also do not believe in karma. It's a nice thought though. Wouldn't the world be a much better place if it were a thing?

However, 25+ years ago, I was single and approached/pursued by a married woman (maybe a year or two older than I was) that I met at work. She was relentless. Over the course of about 6 months, I had told her I was not interested in her because she was married, but she kept at it every day. Eventually she started going to great lengths to manufacture reasons to "find me" in public places, and it started to feel good to be pursued by someone.

We went out on a "date" of sorts, where she blew me in a packed movie theatre. It was crazy, and I can remember thinking "why is this woman married in the first place?" Pitifully, I asked her if she would leave her husband for me, and she quickly replied, no. It confused me beyond belief.

There were many other men at work that were jealous of her attention to me, as she was both very attractive and fun to be with. She was also a freak beyond freaks and would routinely offer to perform porn like activities if only I was interested. Being young with a tremendous sex drive, I asked if she would be interested in a threesome. She was. In fact, she told me she had a friend that she used to do that with all the time and would call to see when she was available. This other girl was in a relationship with someone else that she "really cared about" so she turned us down. But that didn't stop the married woman, she asked "who else would you interested in?" I told her some girl at work and SHE ASKED HER! It was like I had opened the pandoras box of free sex. But alas that girl also wasn't interested (though years later I would run into her again and she would confirm that she was asked, and wasn't interested in a threesome, but wasn't necessarily not interested in me).

Eventually she invited herself to the house I was renting out and we had sex. It was loud and crazy, my root mate at the time would comment that he and his friends could hear her out in the street. But I remember feeling incredibly empty inside, knowing the whole time it was wrong, and knowing that I was going to regret it. That was the last time I ever saw her again. I had never called her (not ever, even though she'd left me a burner phone number).

That was the only time I was with a married woman, and I still regret it greatly. It was wrong, I knew it, but I was young and eventually I wore down to her advances (not entirely out of the want for sex, but emotionally I liked feeling wanted).

Is it karma that 25+ years later I'm the one being cheated on? I don't think so. I think it's just human nature.

I never want to help someone cheat. I never want to cheat on anyone (and I haven't). But I think everyone has their limits, it's just some people have very low standards for themselves and for others.

I would consider it a great win if I can go the rest of my life not going below my own standards.

I am not saying at all that BS’s somehow deserve being betrayed. I do NOT believe that, the person that betrays their partner/spouse, if completely responsible for the choices they made, and that is on them and has nothing to do with the person they betrayed. I did not meant to imply otherwise.

I wrote that post when I was thinking about a lot of things, and part of owning my shit, is being honest about who I am now, and how I’ve grown (or not) from who I have been in the past. That doesn’t mean I’m trying to make excuses for other people and the choices they make.

When I spoke of karma, it wasn’t me saying I deserved to betrayed at some point in my life, because of bad choices I made when I was younger. Being on the other side of it, just had me thinking again about the part I played back then, in causing the same kind of harm and similar pain to someone else.

Thanks for your post, PL.

Also, when I wrote the OP, I had been reading on different forums here, and was reminded of how some BS’s (understandably) get caught up on the person or people their spouses cheated with, and wish them all kinds of hell.

So I shared a little about my story to say that just like Wayward spouses can change, so can AP’s. And AP’s that have some kind of basic decency enough to want to be a better person, don’t get off Scot free from having to own and work on what it was about them that allowed them to harm somebody that never did anything to them, just like waywards that do similar work on themselves, have to dig, accept and deal with the same kinds of uncomfortable and ugly truths about themselves. AP’s that choose to work on themselves, deal with their issues and grow to be a better person, don’t really get a pass where they get to forget the part they played in what they did to help wreck somebody else’s life, and it not matter to them. It’s not nearly the same kind of pain a BS experiences, or even on the same planet, but it also never really sits right with someone that understands just how bad and harmful the choices they made were, and chose to try to understand their own "whys" so they could be a better person.

That’s really all I was trying to say that night, because it was heavy on my mind.

I have a Buddhist friend who helped host the Dalai Lama, so I have a lot of trust in his knowledge of Buddhism. His description of Karma is something like 'the sum total of what a being has done in all their (previous and current) lives.'

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:39 PM, Wednesday, January 15th]

I have a Buddhist friend who helped host the Dalai Lama, so I have a lot of trust in his knowledge of Buddhism. His description of Karma is something like 'the sum total of what a being has done in all their (previous and current) lives.'

So, someone that was a true saint in previous lives could just show up and be Hitler, and they'd be playing with house money? ;)

I think we are getting hung up on the word Karma.

If I understand correctly, what you are trying to convey is life is long and it’s entirely possible that the ap experiences their pain and suffering.

I believe that is true. People do not go through life without experiencing pain, being rattled to their core, and some will even choose to grow from that.

I obviously have been the OW, like you the AP was a serial cheater. I have no idea what ever happened to Ap, his wife or their marriage but I feel remorse towards her because I know it brought in years of pain to an innocent person. I have no idea if he told her about the rest of his affairs, but mine would have been enough for anyone.

I also have experienced years of pain over my own decisions. What I think you are talking about more than Karma is that many of the people here who hate their spouses AP’s can rest assured that likely never got off Scott free. I agree, many people who have an affair experience great fallout from their decisions.

While I think some people feel they will always have the hatred and that is completely okay, others may decide they can let it go with assurance that someone doing these dirty deeds will not have a good life, it’s going to catch up to them in one way or another. I agree with that. Mostly because I have found letting go does lead to peace. I will always be able to touch the pain my husbands AP helped bring on to me but I know deep within that somewhere she is likely suffereing her own hell over those consequences and it allows me to sit it down and walk away from it. Not for her but for me. I can’t effect her peace so any stewing or allowing her to disturb me is only hurting me. It takes time to get there.

Sorry if this isn’t what you were trying to say. I think it’s less about Karma and more about when you don’t live right it brings hell. That isn’t a statement about an innocent BS who did nothing to deserve the cheating, moreso knowing the Ap likely brought in what was coming to him or her. I think this is true.

Lol- edited to add- blue always says what I am thinking more succinctly. People who do bad things are on the road to bad outcomes. I should have just quoted that and called it a day!

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:30 PM, Wednesday, January 15th]

I don’t know if I believe in Karma or not but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter what happens to my WH or his AP, it will never make me feel better about what they have done to me. Their future pain does not take away mine nor does it make me feel happier.

I’m not even close to a person with a good understanding of Buddhism (or Hinduism). although I have at different times tried to understand. But I used to visit a Tibetan Buddhist nunnery a couple of hours a way from time to time, because it was interesting, in a beautiful spot and did a good vegetarian lunch.

Somewhere along the line I heard about ‘the eightfold path’ and read a bit about it. Sometimes I find myself saying under my breath ‘right view, right conduct’.

Once I went to a Thai Buddhist funeral of a friend’s father and the monk spoke of impermanence and in broken English gave a list of examples including ‘eyeball - impermanent’. That Became a funny line often used in my house when people got too caught up on something, ‘eyeball - impermanent’. Or you could say ‘don’t worry be happy’, like that old song.

This is the noble eightfold path, lifted from Wikipedia:

"The Eightfold Path consists of eight practices: right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right samadhi ('meditative absorption or union'; alternatively, equanimous meditative awareness."

Obviously you can drill down on each.

As to Karma, I think that is nuts and bolts of the Universe stuff. If you accept it you start looking to focus on things like the eightfold path.

I hope the mods are okay with this kind of post. I am only a respectful observer when it comes to Buddhism, because not coming from that cultural background, it would take such a lot of work to get it properly.