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This is not doing good things for me or my marriage right now. I am going to take a break for a bit.

I was concerned about that. But I understand.

It’s just it feels like walking around it all isn’t doing you any favors. I feel like by not saying what I did is condoning behaviors that sound very concerning and not helping you towards the goal you have of reconciling.

I have given you the paths towards thinking about all this differently but I would be dishonest and not helpful if I didn’t push you a bit. It’s good to get a break and think more clearly. I hope you will come back sometime.but more importantly I hope you heal, in whatever methods you can find to do so.

We are here, feel free to DM me also.

It was wrong of me to accuse him of that. I panicked because I didn’t do it and felt pressure to have an explanation.
An explanation for something I didn’t do? Yes, I feel a lot of pressure to have answers for him that I don’t know because I know I’m not supposed to desire an outcome but I do want to hang on to my marriage very badly.
The more I try to breathe in the bad feelings of sadness and anger and anxiety, the more I feel like I’m suppressing them. And then they bottle up and I get overwhelmed and feel like I’m struggling to contain the emotions that I don’t feel like I have a right to feel.
Even though i didn’t wipe his contacts, It was wrong of me to accuse him of losing it.
The problem I’m having, I know poor me, is now because I’ve lied, no one believes me, even when I’m telling the truth.
I didn’t remember they were in that purse until I switched purses. I didn’t remember that I’d done that until I held it in my hand (I know, spooky). I think I was probably afraid that if I came forward with them when I found them and remembered them, I’d feel like I was doing the damage of trickle truthing him again. I’m struggling because My credibility is shot. I feel like a mentally ill person who is certifiably insane. This is not the place I want to be in when I am trying to save my marriage. It is hard for me to admit weakness. It feels like losing.
The problem is, I don’t remember why I had those stupid email accounts. I thought they were for work but I really don’t know. It’s been so long. I really screwed this whole thing up by deleting so much back then.
I don’t want to yell at him. I’m angry at the situation. I don’t want to be mad anymore. The more I suppress these feelings the more likely I feel I am to explode. I don’t feel like I’m a person with rights to emotions.
He picked the examiner. We could pick a different one. At this point I’ve been questioned so much for a year I’m losing my grip on reality and don’t trust myself but I’d be willing to try.
I’m sorry I got very overwhelmed and was spiraling. I’m a perfectionist and feel like such a failure.

I hear you.

And I am sorry to push, but it’s just super hard to understand what the heck is happening. I could see how it could be many ways.

And I don’t fault you for being concerned over the outcome of your marriage. What it feels like, and what you have said is you want to control it. And to me controlling it would mean things like manipulation, hiding truths. It means keeping it however you can, which becomes reactive rather than being proactive. Proactive is talking it through, bringing it up, trying to find the truth when you don’t know what happened.

But I have seen people simply go into hyper detective mode when they have been trickle truthed along. It feels too scary to them to keep believing you and they look for all sorts of things using a confirmation biased approach. For example, I find it extreme to dismiss a poly over one review that could have questionable origins so I see this as possible as well

However, on the other hand, when there is a pattern of DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) it’s difficult for me not to wonder if he is being gaslighted. Darvo is common in abusive relationships, which sounds like you witnessed the entire time you were growing up.

So the waters are just muddy for people like me who believes there could be multiple possibilities as to what is happening.

For now, focus on trying to have patience and preparing to be more understanding. No raging. If you didn’t do what you are being accused of, you can’t control if he believes you. You can however, react calmly. The fact you don’t is what raised my suspicions and I had to push on it. The big reactions to me say "I need to shut this down now" but there could be many reasons for that.

I am not trying to chase you off or trying to make it harder for you. But the pattern of denial and reversing it on him concerned me. It’s happened multiple times now and I would be condoning it if I didn’t try and call you out on it. But I don’t think this is like a trial or something. It just feels like something is off. Does that make sense?

I don’t know what’s happening other than the harder I try to let go of the outcome the more I try to control it.

I have been trying to talk it through and bring it up more lately.

I do not want to do darvo on him. I do believe I witnessed that a lot growing up with my parents fighting. I don’t want to gaslight or abuse him.

I seem to be having trouble getting my reactions under control. I don’t know if it’s physiological or what. This self awareness and self reflection has been more painful and disappointing than I anticipated. I’m sure it’s worthwhile, if I can succeed at it. I’m really struggling to believe in myself right now but I guess if I don’t, it’s not like anyone else can do it for me.

Its like you read my mind. I do feel like I’m on trial and like the verdict has already been reached, everyone has already made up their minds and it’s only a matter of time. I think it’s triggering me because at my last job, I was very well loved until one lady turned almost everyone against me even though I’d been there longer than her and put in more hours than her. It was Then that I realized the importance of narratives and the dangerous strength of groupthink.

Speaking of narratives, a lot of what I’ve been trying to unwind are the rationalizations and justifications I’ve told myself for over a decade.

My husband does deserve better. I haven’t earned his love. I want to become the woman he needs. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. I want to turn my words into actions. I am struggling to integrate everything I read and change all of my patterns of behavior.

[This message edited by Pleasehelpmebebetter at 10:06 PM, Wednesday, April 2nd]

Let’s talk about the idea he wanted to bring another man into your bedroom. He doesn’t understand why you wouldn’t agree. I think I understand this because it’s a dynamic in my own relationship. What do you say to that aspect?

You asked about this before and I’m sorry I was too afraid to answer it and upset him. I’m still not sure if I know how to answer it. I thought that he wanted that because it meant that I wasn’t enough on my own, I wasn’t exciting enough just me. I didn’t realize how much it stemmed from his previous trauma. To me, it was like, oh you own me? No you don’t, I own me. I don’t know if that makes sense but there were a lot of conflicting feelings like, why don’t you want me just for yourself? I thought love meant possession and didn’t understand why he didn’t get jealous. I misunderstood a lot of things. I’m not sure if I’m conveying this clearly.

Your husband loves you, earning it is not needed.

Feeling like you deserve it is where you are trying to go.

Look, I have had 8 years to get from one place to this place.

When I push you it’s to help you gain awareness.

Now that you realize what Darvo is, where you learned it, that will let you choose a different response. Maybe even pre-choose it so you are ready when you are tempted.

I know it scare you for me to say you need to stop the damage because you want to stay married, you don’t want to see him like this, and you wish it could just be simpler.

It can and does get simpler.

But right now your husbands spidey senses are tingling over a number of matters and often bs do have heightened senses, and I pay attention to that.

My purpose for being honest about how I see it is so you have someone pointing out what they see. Honestly I have no vested interest In what the truth is- you could have had PIV with 50 dudes and I would just want to know how you are going to repair yourself after that. How are you going to help your husband with it. So this is not a trial, but I think it’s natural we want to know your side of what he is saying. I can only help you with what I know for sure.

The reason I can read your mind sometimes is I have been you in many ways. I have done the things. And I wasn’t 24, I was 41. I understand people are complex. I can tell you when I had my affair I didn’t set forth to hurt my husband, I had no idea affairs caused trauma. I wasn’t going to get caught anyway is what I told myself.

It’s hard to have strangers poke at you, and feel they have made up their mind. I haven’t, but you can expect that I may poke at what you are saying. We lie to ourselves even.

I do not think you are some evil mastermind. I just think that some of what you say is hard to comprehend, and the only thing I keep landing on is how much you want this marriage, and that tight grip to me makes you capable of lying or hiding. That need to be perfect is strong.

This is overwhelming shit. I don’t expect you to master it in a week. I don’t do everything perfectly even today.

You should work in IC on some coping strategies and how to best deal with the items you keep being asked about but that you have solemnly told the truth on.

I don’t know what the truth is, but it does make me suspicious when I see certain behaviors, but as I have said over and over- I don’t t know what it is I am looking at. While it seems like I can read your mind, only in some areas where I was the same way. Your situation is different.

I didn’t see the response about other men until now.. That part I understand.

When I confessed to cheating one of the first things my husband asked is why didn’t you just come to me you know I have been open in the past about ways of having sexual variety. He would have been open to being with other people, and I knew that.

But back when we were doing that I didn’t feel like I was enough for him. And I wanted us to have monogamy and grow something more with just him. I also felt a little like he was the one who wanted variety.

My affair just wasn’t about sexual variety. Logically that would have made sense be ause that’s what people who have affairs do.

Mine was about escapism, wanting to feel special, wanting to be someone I wasn’t. So it’s easy for me to understand that bringing someone else in feels like escalating to some unknown place to please him. And I didnt want the feelings that came with that the first time around. I felt like I could relate to why is the only reason I asked.

I didn’t really even want other men, I didn’t go around looking at guys. It was as transactional as you accepting money. I was accepting attention, and being able to be someone else.

Thank you, I hope so. That’s a good idea to pre-choose a response.
It’s also hard to hear you say to stop the damage because while I appreciate you, it means I have to face that I am causing him damage which is hard for me to accept but I’d rather know it than not. It’s just disappointing and concerning that I have to have someone point it out to me like that.
Thanks for your encouragement and insight into what’s going on from his perspective.
I didn’t realize affairs cause trauma either and I also told myself I wasn’t going to get caught.
Everyone asks why I’m not being forthcoming and the reason i think I come across like that is because I have been having to unravel my own lies to myself as I go. I know that is very unsettling to me and everyone else.
In some ways, You really can read my mind. I was just saying earlier how I feel like I need an exorcism or something. "For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." The harder I try to accept things, the more I resist them. The more I try to feel my feelings, the less in control of them I feel. Maybe I don’t have a lot of experience knowing how to express my emotions since I was always trying to suppress them before. I don’t know.
I appreciate your kindness and the thoughtful time you’ve put into responding despite my tendency to shut down (because I get overwhelmed easily and get panicked when I don’t feel in control) which I have been fighting. I need to figure out a way to stop spiraling into this deep depression at the slightest thing. My inner critic takes over. I guess it doesn’t matter that my mom was so critical and controlling other than I always look to other people for guidance and it’s like I don’t trust myself to make even the smallest of decisions.
My husband asked the same thing, why didn’t you come to me? Unfortunately, I think it was partly about the feeling of "getting away with" something. Just some entitled crap, I guess. Like, if I want it, why shouldn’t I have it? Another problem I had was being attracted to people who were attracted to me, if that makes sense.

Awareness is half the battle. The other half is learning to manage what you re learning. It’s like drinking from a firehose. I get it, I have been there.

I can’t stop saying hard things to you, but just know if I didn’t care I wouldn’t.

Yes- I get the mom thing. I allowed my mom to think for me until I was 30. And it boggles my mind because she is such fear mongering illogical thinker. She is very emotionally immature.

For now just focus on the most important things first, and that would be answer calmly and honestly. Try to think about if he was laying there with a gunshot wound how would you treat him? He doesn’t have a physical ailment to remind you he is fragile. And I am sure he gets irritated, frustrated and hard to deal with. Instead of seeing that as coming down on you, see it is just pain he is letting out. Help him let it out.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:49 PM, Thursday, April 3rd]

Yes mam. Thank you for understanding.
That’s a good way to think of it.