SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I really think you need to ask yourself how you see your future.

You have a lot of facts to answer your own questions. Take care of yourself.

He has shown and told you what kind of man he is. Believe him.

Sometimes we need to act on what we know, and sometimes even on what is probable.

For example: If you are walking along a dark area of town and hear what might be a gunshot... Would you walk towards the sound to discover the origin, or would you decide to walk a bit faster towards safety? Maybe even run?
Could be a firecracker. Or a tire blowing. Or a muffler. Or a nail-gun. Or somebody dropped something heavy. Could even be someone shooting at rats, or target-practice. Why assume it’s a gunshot and that it’s being fired in a malignant purpose? Why do you feel a need to go towards safety? Out of the situation? You don’t have the truth, but you have a sense that you might be in danger. That’s enough to act on. It makes more sense than to search for the cause of the noise and maybe realize the "truth" a second before a bullet enters your brain.

To me it sounds like you are in a comparable situation.
I don’t know if your husband is actively cheating right now. But based on what you share, his attitude is all that it’s OK, it’s not so bad, it’s not a serious issue, that it’s normal, that it’s accepted, that it’s something he needs to do because he cant get it all from you, and that it’s something he’s been doing forever and hasn’t really committed to not doing it...
To me – that’s a lot of sounds like gunshots...

If this marriage is to survive your husband needs to make some major and serious attitude changes. Based on your last post, he’s not going to do that as-is. He knows that for now his cost for continuing his actions is simply to wait and see. After all – it’s only costing him that you sleep in a separate room and occasional hard talks where he controls what he divulges. He knows he can refuse to tell the truth, that he can refuse MC... that the "worst case" scenario from him (as he sees it) is that you sleep in a separate room. Guess he still gets free laundry and dinner. He can spend the evenings and nights on Tinder or watching porn or whatever.

Nothing will change until you decide that whatever he’s offering isn’t enough, and you want something else. Nothing will change until he sees he no longer controls what he shared and does, and wants to make the required changes. That MIGHT happen when he realizes you are leaving. Or it might not. Either way, you will be out of infidelity – with or without him.

I am going mad, I am truly going mad. He says that I am ruining our marriage because I lack perspective. I'm allowed to have feelings about what he did but it was a long time ago and I need to get over it because it was a "one off" thing. However, he has never actually admitted to anything. He has not once confessed to anything, I have put the evidence in front of him and he has said he is sorry for causing me pain. He has denied, diminished, and misdirected, usually the end of the conversation has him as the victim. when I asked to read the letter he wrote to me that was supposed to be an apology but in fact was a complaint about my finding out about his Tinder dates and his emotional affair, he said I 'forced' him. I asked him where was the force, I asked him and he was free to say no at any moment. He said he didn't trust me, that I was waiting to punch him in the nose with a misinterpretation of some sort.

I am going mad, I am going MAD.

bigger

thanks for your thoughtful message. I appreciate it. It's a good analogy.

I need to stop asking for the truth because I am never going to get it.

It's very hard to accept. Part of me keeps insisting why can't he just tell me the truth, why am I not worth it. otoh I realize, his inability to tell the truth is not about me, at all, and his cheating isn't about me, either. I am not "not meeting his needs". it was about opportunity, maybe him going through a thing about getting older, most likely the fact he has had a lot of professional failure in the past decade, which is inconsistent with his very high opinion of himself

Do not let him drive you mad. He can’t trust YOU?? Sheese. I hear echoes of my WH, telling me that this is all water under the bridge, I need to move on, I’m the problem, my brain is the problem….it became about how my focus on family drove him to his A, how everybody is doing it, I need to accept that. That the problem isn’t what I found but that I wouldn’t stop looking. Hard NO. I don’t have to accept any of it, especially staying in a relationship filled with this kind of manipulative crap. Neither do you.

Yes you lack perspective, but not for what he thinks. You lack perspective to see him as he is, not how he is trying to make you see him. You are so deep in the forest it’s hard to see actual trees. He is way off base and playing with fire here, and he is the one lacking perspective.

My WH had a lot of trouble "owning" his choices, he still does. You will not find peace until his mindset shifts, that this IS a big deal, it IS a problem, you have a RIGHT to know what was happening in your life and marriage and he has a responsibility to quit stonewalling you. Minimizing on his part will only fester your wounds.

Protect yourself. This is a 180 situation, you need to pivot hard and let him see you are not going to be manipulated into accepting his crap excuses or explanations, and until he can own his choices and apologize to you with meaning and from the heart, no way can you just let this go, and in no way does he deserve to have you remain in his life.

Take care.

Friend...

I need to stop asking for the truth because I am never going to get it.

I think one of our key-roles here on SI when we respond to threads like yours is to offer our very best advice to ensure your safety. Not only physical, but also mental safety and health.

If you truly don’t think you will get enough truth to be in a good marriage your very best option is to get out.
There is NO WAY your marriage can ever be whole if you have doubts and questions. You can work 100% at reconciliation and maybe even be happy, but inevitably after some time the questions will arise again.

IMHO the ONLY way a marriage can reconcile is if you the BW can accept what you know as the truth, and work from there. As-is there are too many questions left unanswered, and all his responses are NOT indicating he is willing to work at true reconciliation. He’s hoping for acceptance for his actions from you.

This week, because we have a family plan for our cell phone contract, I discovered while trying to delete an app I no longer want on my phone that I can also see the apps that are on my husband's phone. I found that he has, in the past decade, downloaded seven different dating apps. When confronted he continued to lie and gaslight. Like a ninny, I begged and pleaded for him to tell me the truth. I literally got on my knees, fell to the floor and sobbed on his feet, begging me to just tell me the truth. I wasn't even asking him to admit sleeping with anyone - I was asking him to tell me if he was, when he met up with the women, "Open to the opportunity for sex" as he kept using evasive language ("It wasn't my main purpose; it wasn't my priority; it's not why I was meeting them; sex wasn't even in the top three reasons I did it) and still he refuses to answer, instead blaming me, telling me that I can't handle the truth, telling me that whenever he tells me the truth I "punch him" and make his life living hell and he just wants a day of peace from my emotional rollercoaster.

I am writing these details here for future betrayed spouses. I already knew what so many kind people here are telling me - that hearing the truth won't change what I know, that I am being abused. I'm deeply ashamed of myself for groveling. I guess I believed there was a sliver of humanity in my husband, a person in there who deserved a chance to rise above this and be the man he pretends to be, and give us some tiny basis of truth for rebuilding trust and staying together. But there is not. He is willing to let me sob on the floor - I think he'd let me die of a heart attack, all the while shaking his head in denial, though I have the evidence right in front of him.

I appreciate everyone's support here. When I'm out of this situation, I'll come back and update you. The only reason I haven't made a move sooner is that our financial situation is very complicated, he's in control, and he's unpredictable. I'd like to not give up any more of my assets than I have to, though at this point I'm willing to walk away with nothing, and consider myself lucky to have my health and my sanity and a future that is far far away from him.

[This message edited by marriedaliar at 4:13 PM, Friday, April 18th]

most likely the fact he has had a lot of professional failure in the past decade, which is inconsistent with his very high opinion of himself

This may be part of his "reason for cheating" but it appears from your last post this has been going on much longer.

I’m sorry you have married a liar and someone who has serious issues. For your own sake I agree that the 180 is your best option right now. It doesn’t have to be mean but it’s about protecting yourself from further damage where you are begging for help or answers and he refuses.

I’d suggest you no longer engage in any discussions with him about his lying or cheating or apps or affairs. You are investing emotional energy and getting nothing in return.

Keep your conversations very short and brief. Books or movies or what’s for dinner are ok topics. Money & kids & finances are ok topics if they have to happen.

Maybe move to a different bedroom (preferably him) if that helps you.

Don’t do favors or errands for him.

Stop doing his laundry. Stop being his wife. Stop making him a priority - instead make yourself a priority.

Eat dinner out alone if you must. Go out for walks with friends (without him). Start your own social life.

In short, you become a priority. Heal yourself. Figure out what YOU want out of life. If he asks you questions, don’t engage if you don’t want to answer.

Nothing will change unless you change. Trust I learned this lesson the hard way.

I’m so sorry you found more. I made the same discovery, the same way, getting rid of apps on my phone and saw all the ones he downloaded on our plan. He lied about them and got mad just like your WH. I cried and begged just like you. It didn’t matter to him in his current state of lying and denial. It would have been so much easier to get all the ick out in the open at once, instead of in bits and pieces like you are finding. Another place I stumbled on more disgusting stuff he said he didn’t look at was in his iPhone safari website data. Who knew how many disgusting hook up sites were out there?? Just like the apps, I got lame excuses and denials. I told him the pattern of evidence paints a picture at odds with his defense. I know what I found and I know what he was doing and I gave up trying to get the truth from his lips.

At least you know what you are working with now. Protect yourself. Please, please, try to let go of shame for how you react to betrayal by someone you loved completely. I was not myself, I was not strong, I was not proud of how I handled myself in my shock and grief, but I tried to give myself grace and leave judgement behind. I promised myself that whatever I felt and however it came out, I would allow myself that until I found my footing and myself again.

Realize the shock you are in the midst of as just that - you are in shock, you have been repeatedly manipulated and lied to by the person you trusted the most, and there is no playbook for getting through this without pain. Please know you are not alone, we are here to support you and help you see through your WH’s smoke screens and fog to find your way to a safe place.

I’m so sorry to see you living some of the same details of my nightmare. If the main character in yours is similar to mine, you have to treat all the words coming out of his mouth as suspect now. He can’t and won’t be honest about his secret life. Like you, all I wanted was the truth. I never got it, beyond what I discovered on my own. I know I will never know all of it, and statistically, the odds of me finding everything are slim, and I’m certain there is more I will never know. He prefers to bury secrets rather than to rebuild trust with me. I stayed, but for none of the reasons I thought I would. You have to decide what works for you and what you can live with, but right now, you need to tend to your physical and mental health and remove yourself from his continued bullshit lies and excuses.

As to unpredictability, you are wise to be concerned about that. My H was cornered, trapped and afraid, and initially was cruel and unkind to me as I forced the truth to light. I made sure I was protected financially and stopped telling him what I was doing or my concerns about our future. I spent almost a month with a go bag and camping gear in my car, because I ran out of fight and was ready for flight. I will always have a mental out, a safe house location to bug out if things devolve. I keep my own checking and savings accounts now, after decades of joint banking. Do what ever works for you to get through this intact. Get your support group in place and take care of yourself as you would your best friend or your child. It’s hard to remember to care for yourself in crisis. Good luck with the days ahead.