SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello. After a 14 year on and off again affair, I believe I have finally gotten my head out of my ass. I had confessed once before at the 2 year mark, and BH forgave me. I did NC for a year or so but then the backsliding started about 6 months later. Sometimes an emotional affair. Sometimes more. Most of it on our phones and not in person, but I know it does not matter. It is still wrong. There have been periods of weeks, months or even years in between depending on the break. The triggers range from all of my own undealt with bulls*@$*t and cowardice, to my BH's addictions (which justify NOTHING on my part but do serve as a trigger.)

After my BH found a suspicious text a month ago, I decided to go back to the one therapist who had started to help me to get to the root of my behavior. I successfully began NC right then and there. It has been about a month. Blocked everywhere. Seeing my therapist. Leaning on friends. Journaling. Trying to unpack why and how I allowed this into our life, and what I can do moving forward to repair what I can and to live as a decent person. I do know it starts with honesty and courage and no excuses on my part.

Here is the dilemma I am wrestling with right now: My BH does not know that *I know he saw my phone. He is acting like nothing happened. My instinct is to bust it all open and talk but I don't know if this is the right thing to do because he is so avoidant about it, and obviously my instincts and impulses have failed me in the past or we would not be going through this problem I caused in the first place.

I could just come right out and say "I believe you saw my phone, and I would like to talk about what you saw." But is this cruel? Am I making it about what I want and need instead of what is right for him? He does not want to talk about it and says he does not know what I am talking about when I begin to talk about it. He says he trusts me. He says "Everything is fine." But it is clearly not. So we are playing this game. He wants no specifics. Maybe he just wants to move forward or deny it all to himself, but the hurt in his eyes makes it clear that he is struggling. He is in survival mode. Rightfully, he does not trust me and could possibly be afraid I will just lie, which is worse for him than slogging through it. I don't know. I am just guessing here.

If I maintain NC, if I continue to work in therapy, and if I focus my marriage and on being the wife I should have been all along is this enough, or is this also selfish? Those things are what I am choosing to do regardless of whether we talk about things in detail. That is the only thing I am sure of right now now. In the mean time, it feels like there is this boulder between us, but when I go to even broach the subject he just shuts down. Has anyone been through this? What is the right thing to do?

[This message edited by dlvp at 2:12 PM, Monday, July 28th]

I think that being involved in an affair for 14 years, even on and off, is remarkable. It's a parallel relationship. It's like you were keeping 2 husbands. I don't know what is going on with him, of course, but if you want to have anything resembling an actual, "normal" marriage, you HAVE to talk to him. Neither of you really knows the other - he doesn't know what you do with this second husband - and I am using that term deliberately because I consider this a parallel marriage, maybe it fulfills different needs or desires you have but they are things you are going to this other man for that you don't go to your legal husband for. Your husband doesn't know or understand this relationship or why you do this or what you are getting met with this other man, or how you feel or what has been going on with you for 14 years. Nor do you know what he feels about you or marriage or anything for the same period. You're both living a facade. For some people a facade, unfortunately is enough, but that's their choice. It sounds like you have reached a point where you want to be genuine and have a genuine relationship. To do that, YOU HAVE TO DISCUSS THIS. If you don't, you are both going to continue to be fake people in a fake marriage. Or...a parallel relationship as I say. He's obviously avoidant for whatever reasons, but I really think you need to break the ice here. Once you break the ice and bring this out into the open, then you both can start dealing with this and finding out what each of you wants in marriage and life. It might be this relationship or it might not be, but neither of you will know until you start talking. Obviously be prepared for any reaction including refusal to discuss, but I would keep on it because....how you can keep 14 years of a parallel relationship in a closet somewhere. It's like bodies in the crawl space, it has to come out. Good luck!

No Stop Sign.

If you ever want true intimacy, you must talk about it and work through these issues. It is doing no one service. Sure, on the outside he may be able to be avoidant and pretend it does exist ...but is this really helping him live to the fullest extent he can? No .....

Maybe he needs to learn to value himself...maybe he needs to learn to not live in fear of confrontation....maybe he needs new coping skills, etc, etc. Bottom line, he likely needs to grow as a person. Of course, you do too. You need to come to grips with what has really been going on...how severely this man has been disrespected and taken for granted....even abused. Once faced, you can know real forgiveness and grace and freedom. Yes...talk about it. Learn to live, learn to live. And I always say, ask God to help you navigate this...and ask Him for the paths of forgiveness...after all....He designed marriage. 🙏

Take this at face value, but as a BS myself, I never pressured my WW to do anything, but oh did I observe everything she did, and did not do. Perhaps your husband is waiting to see if you will come forward with the information he already knows. It would make a huge leap towards being honest in my world, and continued honesty builds trust. I knew things my wife never offered up and that was one of the things that continued the erosion of our marriage.

IDK ... I suspect that conflict avoidance is a significant part of every A. I believe that doing something new & different is essential to R. That means addressing and resolving conflicts is a crucial part of R & M. IOW, To Reconcile AND to advance a marriage, one has to accept that conflicts will occur.

The main reason I never cheated is that I did not want to deal with my W's finding out about it. I would not want to be in a marriage in which my partner kept betrayal secret, so my opinion is: talk with your H.

If he's in an active addiction, his addiction is probably mor important to him than his M is. Be prepared for a response that is pretty dysfunctional. A partner in an active addiction is not an excuse for an A, but it is a potential reason for D.

He may be refusing to discuss it because he's deciding whether to file for divorce (or is already in the process) and doesn't want to tip his hand before he's ready. That would be a reasonable response to learning that your affair went underground for over a decade. If you're asking why he wouldn't tell you openly that he's getting ready to leave, ask yourself why you hid your affair. You don't have much grounds for expecting open communication within your marriage when your husband sees your text to another man.

If that were the case, what would you do?

dlvp
Thank you for coming here to ask questions and get advice. I wish more WS's would do the same.

If I maintain NC, if I continue to work in therapy, and if I focus my marriage and on being the wife I should have been all along is this enough, or is this also selfish?

I think the answer to your question is yes this is also selfish in it's own way. Avoiding the pain of discussing the elephant in the room is another way of protecting yourself, which is often how affairs last. They hide in the shadows of deceit. By keeping things hidden, you rob him of his autonomy. You make decisions for him, instead of giving him the information and letting him decide for himself.

Your instinct here is correct IMO. I would recommend you break it open.

I could just come right out and say "I believe you saw my phone, and I would like to talk about what you saw." But is this cruel? Am I making it about what I want and need instead of what is right for him? He does not want to talk about it and says he does not know what I am talking about when I begin to talk about it. He says he trusts me. He says "Everything is fine." But it is clearly not.

Personally I wouldn't bring the phone up at all. I would schedule a time to sit down and tell him everything. Spill the beans so to speak. Create a full timeline with all the facts as best you can and give it to him. Explain what you told us here, that you are committed to NC, and you are working on what caused you to make these choices with your IC, and that you are committed to fixing the problems this has caused between the two of you. I know it's a risk, and it's not easy, but you need to smash that boulder between the two of you.

@BraveSirRobin, thank you. I am not judging my husband for not wanting to talk. I am not surprised by his reticence and I know he has every right to be shut down. Actually I don't expect the open communication at all and would not be surprised at all if he is planning a divorce. My question was about examining what I need to do right now in the current moment given everything I laid out in my post, and my focus is on making sure that my next actions are not based on selfishness or on what would get me off any kind of hook. I am past that. I already know I messed up and I own it. I just want to proceed carefully and not make things worse for him. That is why I asked the question. I know I could lose hm, and I would deserve it. But I am comfortable at least pondering and then deciding on next steps and trying to do the "right" thing now, whatever that looks like and regardless of how if affects me. I am focused on him and our marriage.

[This message edited by dlvp at 8:19 PM, Sunday, July 27th]

dlvp - I hope you don't mind me leaving a small comment on your message to BSR. I think the bottom line in any situation is that we can't control the reactions or behaviors of other people, for good or ill. We can only do what we think is best or needed in the situation. I think honesty, openness, and transparency are always best in relationships otherwise things stay festering under the surface. I do tend to poke and prod myself as my own husband tends to be a reticent person. If this were me, I would just raise the issue as you suggest, and see how he responds. If he really does not want to discuss it, there's nothing you could do, I'd say....I'm always open and ready to discuss this when you want, I don't want it affecting our relationship in unseen ways. And then leave it for the time being and see how it goes. If you get the sense as time goes on that it really IS a problem, or maybe there is a general problem anyway with communicating, you might want to raise it again. I would trust your gentleness and tact in discussing this issue. I'd raise it and be guided by his behavior for now.

@BondJaneBond thank you. I am working up the courage to tell him everything, and I am afraid and paralyzed, but I know it is what I need to do. I believe he is both waiting for me come clean and dreading it at the same time. Who would't be? I catch myself trying to leave things out to soften the blow after all this time has gone by (which is lying by omission), and once I start talking I just chicken out and talk around the topic or he tries to change the subject. The two of us are avoiding what is coming.

I am going to talk to my IC about how to broach and discuss the subject in a fully transparent way.

Bottom line is that I now know I have to rip the bandaid off. A letter detailing everything may be a better solution since I can't squirm out of what is written on a page, but that may be even more cowardly and worse for my BH. Perhaps a letter I read out loud? I will see what my IC thinks but I am open to any feedback here as well.

The one thing I know for sure is that the disclosure has to happen before any counseling, so that he does not feel blindsided. That is what happened last time ... after the two year mark disclosure, I had a relapse and told him in therapy because I did not have the courage to tell him alone. Now he hates all counselors and the idea of counseling and sees it as a trap. So I am trying to proceed carefully and mindfully, but in the end I know that regardless of how I do it, coming clean is the best solution. This forum has helped me to see that. Thank you to all of you for your comments so far. Thank you @everyone.

[This message edited by dlvp at 2:39 PM, Monday, July 28th]

BS here and no stop sign.

If I maintain NC, if I continue to work in therapy, and if I focus my marriage and on being the wife I should have been all along is this enough, or is this also selfish?

This keeps circling in my mind. IF. IF? There are a lot of IFs here and they don't sit well with me.

Being the wife you should be/should have been should never ever ever be contingent. You either behave that way or end it. But the statement IF gives me a huge pause here. In fact, it makes ice water run through my betrayed veins.

My 2 cents - You are either ALL IN on figuring out if R is a possibility to you or you D. There is no IF. And even while you take all the time to figure out should you end your marriage or mend your marriage - there is not IF.

Note - and I'll be brief but be very careful to keep within guidelines - a 14 year LTA. That is over a decade. My own WH LTA was just over 4 years and it guts me to my absolute core. 14 years - no wonder your WH built an impenetrable wall of denial to spare him the pain of that reality.

As for his addictions, while they are never an excuse for an affair, they are something that absolutely need to be addressed. And you are under no obligation to stay married to an addict. You can't IF that either. [ex: IF I don't use then I won't...]

I wish you both the best in your healing journey. But it honestly sounds like much individual healing must take place before the relationship can even attempt to be healed.

Bottom line is that I now know I have to rip the bandaid off. A letter detailing everything may be a better solution since I can't squirm out of what is written on a page, but that may be even more cowardly and worse for my BH. Perhaps a letter I read out loud? I will see what my IC thinks but I am open to any feedback here as well.

Also a BS here if that wasn't obvious.

I can tell you my wife had a hard time telling me the whole story at first. She concealed parts so she wouldn't look so bad. She did finally tell me the truth (AFAIK), but I'm sure that temptation was strong for her.

She took a lie detector test later to prove what she was saying. In that test she made a rudimentary time line of when it started and ended, and the range of things she did with him.

It's been a little bit hard for me that she hasn't created a detailed time line for me. (She doesn't think it's useful at this point post lie detector test, and i have not pushed for it.)

When I have hard things I want to discuss with her, I tend to write a letter instead of talk in person. This is because often she gets very defensive and DARVO's me which completely derails the conversation, and also so I can be precise in what I say so there's less misunderstandings.

I recommend creating a whole time line as complete as you can make it, and then write a letter expressing your feelings and goals.

Then give them to him in person, and talk about them when he's ready. You might have to give him time to process.

I think writing it all as a letter would be your best course of action. Don’t sanitize and don’t omit.

He may not want to hear about it now, but if you stay together, I think he eventually will.

But it may be years, and you may have genuinely forgotten some of the details he will ask about.

So write it all down now, and tuck it away, to refresh your memory when the day comes.

What you find hardest to write down is probably what is most important.

Best wishes.

@Chaos please know that the "ifs" was a list of things followed by this: "Those things are what I am choosing to do regardless of whether we talk about things in detail." That is what I wrote but I think you may not have read or digested that. I have 100% decided to do ALL of those things. I am doing those thing now and will continue to.

Maybe I should have written this better and said the second sentence first and then made list like this, because this is what I meant. Here is a better re-write:

"Here are the things I am choosing to do regardless of whether we talk about things in detail:

1) maintain NC

2) continue to work in therapy

3) focus my marriage and on being the wife I should have been all along."

Then I should have written:

"Is it enough for me to do these things and not insist on talking?"

Because THAT is the issue and the point of my post. Whether pushing him to talk is just as selfish as everything else if he does not want to talk.

But please know it was semantics. There is no "if". about what I am going to do, except for the part of about if I should leave him alone if he doesn't want to talk. I am trying to do the right thing and not get out of anything. I am ready for any consequence. I think disclosure is key and I am ready, but I am struggling with his resistance to talking. And I understand it.

[This message edited by dlvp at 9:09 PM, Monday, July 28th]

Dlvp,

Start a journal write down all you know about the affair from the beginning to the end. Allow him to read it or not.

There are many reasons a betrayed husband doesn't want to know.

One reason is that the affair confirms his own worthlessness, and he he has to accept what you did and do because he cannot do better.

Another might be that he loves and cherishes you unconditionally.

Sometimes people accept because they can't handle any more pain in their lives and choose numbness as an escape

Did you at least get STD tests, DNA the kids, suggest a postnup etc.

Dlvp,

How far away is OM, coworker?

@survus, yes to STD testing. No STD’s present. I have never had kids so there is no DNA testing issue. I will bring up postnup. I had not thought of that. OM lives in the same city and we were former coworkers but I left that job a long time ago. 2016. OM is blocked everywhere (socials, email etc.)

Thank you for your advice. I will do that. (The journal.)