SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maybe my time away from the forum here did me some good. I have had absolutely no one. So... loneliness became more just... a fact of life. Like rainy days. Loneliness has become humdrum. I am accommodating it "better" now.

I read over at "Just Found Out" a new post by ouchythishurts:

...real love is being scared to hurt someone, not just scared to lose someone. And I know he’s scared to lose me, but it doesn’t feel like he’s scared to hurt me.

Not all of what ouchythishurts wrote applies to me, but enough of it did that it got me thinking about those two sentences I just quoted. Something about the 1st sentence feels not quite right to me. Like: there are times when the loving thing to do toward a spouse indeed will cause hurt. Potentially... calling a spouse out on alcoholism or such. But that's ultimately tangential because my W isn't an alcoholic. There's still something in that expression that caught my attention. So... when I ask myself: do I love my W enough to be scared to hurt her--my honest answer is: no. And, yes, that bothers me.

Certain folks here have encouraged me to find what would stop me from ever pursuing infidelity again--under any circumstances. As nearly as I can tell, my final answer is: loving my W sooooooooo much that she could treat me like dirt and I would still want never to hurt her again. But am I "there" yet? Nope.

Now... does she treat me like dirt? Well... maybe not that badly. But mostly, I just hardly see her. We live in the same house. In 24 h, I have seen her for less than 5 minutes. That's not unusual. She got up and got up the kids and got them ready for school. I worked on getting ready for clinic, showered, and went off to clinic. On my way out the door, I called "Have a good day! I love you!" out to her as I bustled out the door to my car on my way to work from across the house. I got home to an effectively empty house at 6 PM. I took care of the family dog. I reheated some dinner that my W had cooked. I skimmed the site as I ate. Then I chatted with ChatGPT again. It asked me if fear that loving my W enough might make me less inclined to reconnect with my OW was holding me back from loving my W to the extent captured in the two lines I've quoted. Interesting question. Um... maybe? I mean... I've constructed this whole rational underpinning according to which all arguments lead to the conclusion that accepting my W's suffering for the sake of my authenticity (read as: recalling my OW to friendship) is morally imperative, albeit an "unpleasantry." But... can marital love properly be so anemic that I just... accept that outcome? Don't I want a M filled with passionate--even mad--love?

I began to think what I will merrily allude to only as "dark thoughts." So... I went to sleep early--before my W & kids got home--rather than ponder... methods.

I woke up with the memory that I had promised my W that, during the current period of NC with my OW, I wouldn't organize my life around my OW or R with her. In fairness to my W and alignment with that sincerely offered commitment, I realized that--my platonic love for my OW notwithstanding--I have to be willing--maybe even... eager--to love my W enough that--logic be damned--I might find it necessary to forego R with my OW to spare my W pain. That was quite a gut punch, I can faithfully report.

So... that begs the questions: if I don't feel that mad passion for my W spontaneously, can I cultivate it--and, if so, how?

Now those are questions to which I don't have answers. It seems a taller lift than I know how to manage to fall in love with a distant memory of the woman I fell in love with back when we had time for each other. Mostly, that's all I have of my W. We live together, yes. But we hardly see each other. My W's schedule is hard, with the kids. My schedule is hard, with the work.

To be clear: I still insist my OW is a wonderful and good woman. A blessing to the world at-large. I still treasure the time God afforded me with her. I can still carry forward from that time the happy memories and value of having been made--through contact with my OW--to feel lovable again. My OW will always have my gratitude and respect and even--I hope--my platonic love. She is irreplaceable. I still hope that God somehow finds a way to reunite the two of us--as friends. But maybe I have to accept that hope as existing like the hope of someone buying a lottery ticket? A wish... but not a likelihood and not an outcome that my own determination and/or effort can materialize? It's increasingly the case that I don't see how I can resurrect that friendship--invaluable as it was to me. If my W wasn't so adamantly opposed to my OW and me reconciling, maybe. If my OW was willing to friend me "on the down low," maybe. But their positions are increasingly looking irreconcilable and I'm only already married to one of the two women. It hurts, though, to be so disempowered by others "vetoing" what I just know could be a beautiful--and even healthy--friendship for me (surely, one of the dearest of my lifetime). (Side note: I initially wrote there that my W was vetoing the friendship, but my OW's insistence on friendship being on top of the table means that she, too, has contributed to the "veto" I'm facing, although more passively.) Y'all have been right that I have had to trust in God to look after my OW during at least this period of NC--so why not indefinitely? I owe it to my W to place on the line the possibility that I might some day love my W so much that the thought of harming my W by bringing my OW back into my life might even some day seem abhorrent if it would still hurt my W. I emphasize: I'm not "there" currently.

Can I get "there"? If so... how--when I hardly see my W?

[This message edited by Unconventional at 12:22 PM, Wednesday, November 11th]

Potentially... calling a spouse out on alcoholism or such. But that's ultimately tangential because my W isn't an alcoholic. There's still something in that expression that caught my attention. So... when I ask myself: do I love my W enough to be scared to hurt her--my honest answer is: no. And, yes, that bothers me.

There is a difference between temporary "hurts" that are intended to help someone in the long run, and something that only hurts them. Infidelity belongs in the latter category (and any roundabout, long term positive outcome that you might try to associate with the infidelity can be gotten without it. See the health-improving-after-cancer analogy)

As nearly as I can tell, my final answer is: loving my W sooooooooo much that she could treat me like dirt and I would still want never to hurt her again.

It needs to be something inside you, not something external. Marriages are not sunshines and rainbows all the time. There will be times you and your spouse are distant, unhappy, fighting, stressed, struggling, unwell, etc. (this is why the traditional marital vows go "for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health...") You have to make it so that you are unwilling to cheat even if conditions are poor. Because it hurts your spouse, yes, but also because it's a debasement and betrayal of one's self... Most recovering WS work on their self-esteem self-love, and self-worth, their trauma, their habits, their attachment patterns, the structure of their lives, etc... Safe partners make their minds solid and their lives fulfilling, so that they get their needs met in healthy, faithful ways. They are pleased to take infidelity off the table.

I've constructed this whole rational underpinning according to which all arguments lead to the conclusion that accepting my W's suffering for the sake of my authenticity might be imperative morally, albeit an "unpleasantry." But... can marital love properly be so anemic that I just... accept that outcome? Don't I want a M filled with passionate--even mad--love?

I think that you're conflating two different things again. Ideally, you are not meant to suffer with unmet needs or an unfulfilling marriage because you just love your spouse enough to suffer. You're meant address the unmet needs above board in the marriage, find moral ways to meet them yourself or through other people, or, if things don't improve despite your best efforts for as long as you can stand it, exit the marriage. Similarly, your wife is not meant to suffer with the pain, fear, anger, and suffering of experiencing infidelity and having an unsafe, untrustworthy partner... Love means that sometimes you put your partner first, and that you are not selfish, but you should not end up constantly miserable or psychologically unwell because of the relationship.

You're stuck in a tough spot because your marital conditions were poor prior to your unhealthy attachment to OW, and that relationship with OW has only further damaged your relationship with your wife. Now it will take quite a long time to rebuild that trust and to repair the relationship back to ground zero, let alone to improve it substantially. To untangle this knot, you may need to be a bit lonely for a while longer while you fix yourself, so that you don't develop unhealthy attachments anymore, and while the trust rebuilds within your marriage. Right now you have this community, AI, and your therapist for emotional support. Once you are solid, you can work on developing safe friendships to help meet your social and emotional needs to an extent, and the marriage can begin to improve so that it fulfills your romantic and sexual needs.

Do you still love your wife for who she is, as a person, independently of what she provides for you?