SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's time to shift your focus away from getting him back and on to how you can protect yourself and your children. This is a man who has proven he is willing to be cruel to you. He has OW up on a pedestal, and she cares even less than he does about your family. In his NRE-fueled entitlement, he may be capable of draining accounts and hiding funds that you need for their support.

Seriously, kels. You can lick your wounds some more after the legal protections are in place.

OP if you can't let go for yourself, let go for the sake of your kids. These events that they are seeing at home right now are not only traumatising for you but for your kids too. This is not healthy! This period of their life where they get to see their dad act like an emotional abuser and their mom unable to deal with the situation will impact them and shape their future.

Is he still living at your house? Coming and going as he pleases? If so, for all your sakes and to get some distance, ask him to leave and not come back unless he is invited. Cut contact with him. Comminicate using an app or text only. Keep the convo about the kids. You have been in this nightmare for some time now and I do think you need a mental break from it all. Please for your own sake and for your kids kick him out completely and go NC. He is slowely mentally killing you and you are allowing him to.

Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. Read it now. She it wrote it for people in just this type of situation.

@WalkTheStorm oh he left in the middle of November. He lives with the OW now.

I’m trying very hard to start distancing myself and not initiating contact. I miss him terribly and still have not adjusted to being without him. He only sees the kids once a week now. It started off as a lot more but he comes around less and less. They have their own feelings about him and are not happy with what he has done. They are tired of hearing him blame me for everything.

I’m still stuck in fear when it comes to doing anything legal and I know that frustrates all of you. This process has been very difficult for me. He still texts often and says he loves me. There is no more physical contact. He put an end to that. I miss it and him constantly.

He logged into my FB account and read private text messages to two of my friends a hit what is going on and yelled at me for even talking about doing anything legal and called me a liar. Emotionally there is nothing left of me. I am only a shell at this point. Sad and broken.

I’m trying very hard to start distancing myself and not initiating contact. I miss him terribly and still have not adjusted to being without him. He only sees the kids once a week now. It started off as a lot more but he comes around less and less. They have their own feelings about him and are not happy with what he has done. They are tired of hearing him blame me for everything.

I’m still stuck in fear when it comes to doing anything legal and I know that frustrates all of you. This process has been very difficult for me. He still texts often and says he loves me. There is no more physical contact. He put an end to that. I miss it and him constantly.

It doesn't sound like he loves you. It sounds like he loves that he has someone that is taking care of his kids and accepting his emotional abuse so he can justify abandoning the family to pursue the illusion of love.

And do you really love and miss him, or do you love and miss the person you thought he was before? The life you had before?

What you did in the past didn't turn him into the lying cheater he is today. If he couldn't truly reconcile and accept or forgive what you did before, then he had the choice to leave. Likewise, you should now reject what he is doing to you and demand that he change or divorce him.

Do you really want to model this kind of relationship for your children? If one of your children were being treated like this, what would you tell them? "Of course honey, if you love him just go ahead and be his door mat. You owe it to him because you were so terrible before."

No. Don't do that to them.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 12:30 AM, Wednesday, December 29th]

He logged into my FB account and read private text messages to two of my friends a hit what is going on and yelled at me for even talking about doing anything legal and called me a liar.

1. Controlling
2. Abusive
3. Living in fantasy

Are you in IC?

See a lawyer and file.

He's living in fantasyland where he gets you and her. His anger at you speaking the truth shows how far up his own ass he is

Push him out of his ass. File. Make it real. He may not choose you but honestly that is ok. That means he was never going to choose you anyway. But dear girl, don't sit there giving him what he wants while you suffer.

See a lawyer and file.

@OwningItNow I am in IC. It doesn’t seem to be helping right now. She’s incredibly supportive but I’m so low I don’t know how to get up anymore. I’m scared of him now. I’m afraid he will see what I’m posting here. I’m scared all the time.

OP - this may simply be a run of the mill RA. You broke him with your A’s and he has experienced a five year delayed reaction. Very common when A’s are rug swept.

My view, snd it seems to be contrarian here, is to let this continue to play out. He’s probably testing you. You threw a lot of crap at him and he stayed and endured. Now he’s reciprocating and testing you. Does he actually love the AP? Probably not.

You’re hurting and I feel terrible for you. Your H wants you to feel terrible - to experience what you did to him. You’ve made it very clear that you love him snd want to fight for your M. My recommendation is to continue to engage your H. Tell him that you understand the hurt that you put him through and that you’re willing to wait for him. Not necessarily sexually, but as a marriage.

You obviously don’t want to D at this time. From what you’re saying, initiating D right now will make you feel worse than what you’re already experiencing, and ultimately it’s not what you want.

Again, I think your H is testing you. My recommendation is to stay strong, let your H know you still want this M, and stay the course for the time being.

I think what matters most to your husband is to control the narrative so he is not viewed as the bad guy. I understand you are transparent with your passwords but honestly he lost that privalage. He is not reading your private messages to R but to control you and get insight into your thoughts and actions. If you have not done so already, change all your passwords and scan your computer for spyware he might have installed.

Kels, it is painfully obvious to most of us reading your thread that you are mentally exhausted. But by not doing anything to move towards protecting yourself you are prolonging your suffering. Your husband is making you the villan of his life. I would not be surprised if he drains you financially too. He is distancing himself not only from you but from his kids. It's not unheard of that cheaters abandon their kids too. Now it might not be the case in your situation but you need to protect yourself and your kids financially just in case.

Last but not least, one poster has advised you to let this play out, that your husband is reacting because of all the hurt from 5 years ago. Most ppl here are betrayed. Very few would do or have done what your husband is doing. Most of us feel what your husband is doing is using your affairs as an exuse to manipulate and abuse you. It's a part of who he really is (his character) and what he is capable of doing.

Thanks for countering Dude's post, walkthestorm. I wanted to post myself, but I don't think I could manage to remain both coherent and civilized.

Kels, you do not deserve to be abused. Your husband had 5 years to be honest with himself and with you about the state of the marriage. 5 years where he could have made his own demands about the terms of your marriage or divorce.

Instead of openly and honestly confronting you with his anger, hurt and inner desolation, he decided it would be easier to destroy you instead.

From the perspective of a child who had her father's blatant affair with a close family friend thrown in her face for years, I can honestly say that it did untold subconcious damage to my initial impressions of what made for a good character.

I am a WW. I am responsible for my own choices. I cannot, however, pretend that my psyche formed in a vacuum.

Do you want your kids to think that abuse is acceptable on any level? That someone deserves to be abused because they abused others themselves? They are daily witnesses to the degradation of your husband's character. Your daughters will think this behavior is to be expected from a man in a relationship. Your sons will learn that being abused or hurt by another gives them license to be abusers themselves.

Please get out. If not for you, for them. If he changes, you can remarry, but you cannot force him to. He will not change, so for your kids' sakes, you need to be the change.

You can do it. And you're worth it too.

It’s time to put yourself on a self imposed 28 day rehab program.

Since you are stuck doing anything out of fear you can at least set a strict 28 day no contact plan, get OW involved and give her a NC letter saying you need to go NC with ex and he won’t so she needs to control her man (get that mutual friend to deliver at their work) as well as ex. For 28 days the kids go to him if they choose but for you and him? No contact, not 180 not grey rock a full separation of 28 days. For 28 days he is not allowed to reach out to you or visit. Time to start setting new boundaries.

Your dependency is fuelling your fear, you need separation to start detaching.

This you can do, locks on doors, new passwords, let kids know and any mutual friends. He has left you, he doesn’t love you he just doesn’t know how to say it to you, you will argue with me on that but humans are creatures of habit and actions, during his entire affair while at home he was protecting her and their relationship (for example when he was with her I bet he wasn’t on the phone for hours to you) but when he was with you he opened the door for her to join him via communicating with her during "your time" I bet he wasn’t honest about the sex you guys were having too.

No, you need a giant step back and way from him, yes you need legal advice the M is done, but since you’re too scared for that your first baby step is proper separation, you need to do that properly and from that time NC you can read and make phone calls and write your divorce to-do list and slowly work on that. 28 days is not long, your WH took less to fall in love, 28 days flies by, 28 days is a very achievable target.

Be firm in the NC letter, write about the trauma of being led on with the sex and the ILYs and that if it was ever true they can give you both 28 days NC. Say it’s up to the kids, being young adults, what they wish to do during this time, if they also choose NC they need to honour that.

Make a list of books that have been recommended to you, read them, highlight parts you need to build your self esteem and detox from this nightmare M. You need to put the effort in too, no social media for 28 days, block his number, no pain shopping. You’re too stuck in your fear and you need to be active (getting a lawyer, considering selling, job hunting etc etc) and you’re not, so you can do 28 days at least, it’s the first step.

Edit: there is a signature a SI member uses, sorry on phone so can’t hunt, but you should put it in your NC letter ‘it’s rude to say I love you with a mouth full of lies’, tell him no more ILYs

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 6:22 AM, Wednesday, December 29th]

My view, snd it seems to be contrarian here, is to let this continue to play out.

Her toxic + his toxic does NOT equal resolution! It just = twice as much toxic crap that everyone is living through! The poor kids.

Dear god, we do not get to justify our bad behavior and bad choices because "we are hurting." Everyone in society is hurting, but that does not mean you get to justify your most toxic behaviors!

The idea that your WH gets to keep his family image and spend time with you all (says he loves you? Blech!) while permanently harming every last one of you--the kids, for god's sake! --well, it's gutting me. I will repeat what one of my ICs said years ago when I tried to pass my RA off on my H's behavior. "You did have an honest, appropriate choice--to divorce him. Any other response is your own dysfunction and avoidant issue to address!" She pulled no punches, but the same truth goes for your H.

I will just say this, keljpvs. You will pay for this, for allowing your kids to be pushed and pulled this way, for many years to come. This will haunt them and come up over and over again in their lives, and it will crush you. Their tears are not the damage; you can't even see how they are being damaged yet. And honestly, you are allowing and prolonging this horribly painful and confusing time. I'm sorry to be hurtful, but I put my kids through less and the impact has still been huge.

I'm not sure why you are afraid of him, but your fear has me scared, too. I believe that you fear his attacks as you try to get out of this toxic mess--try to tell the truth, get alimony and child support, get control of the marital home, hold him accountable. He'll go crazy, right? He doesn't think you deserve any of it. Will he hurt you?????

"Simply be a run of the mill RA?!" That's bullshit. There are no "run of the mill" affairs. They destroy people, "revenge" or otherwise.

In marriage you get two options. Work it out or walk. Period. Married people are not twelve year olds, "she did it first" does not count for anything.

Transparency in accounts and communications is to build trust during reconciliation. You're not in R when your WH moves out to live with OW. Change all your passwords immediately.

You say that you're afraid of him now. You need to see a lawyer to get legal protection in place as soon as possible.

OP - this may simply be a run of the mill RA. You broke him with your A’s and he has experienced a five year delayed reaction. Very common when A’s are rug swept.

My view, snd it seems to be contrarian here, is to let this continue to play out. He’s probably testing you.

I find this is very bad advice. Basically, it's to continue to open yourself up to abuse in hopes that he corrects his rectal-cranial inversion and becomes human again.

Look, he's breaking into your personal accounts (change the password STAT and don't give it to him) and doing things that make you afraid of him. Who knows what ELSE he is doing, like dissipating marital assets to support his paramour and new lifestyle.

Look, you cannot continue to ignore the legal implications of what he is doing. You must take action to protect you, the marital assets you have built up over the course of your marriage and, most importantly, your children. Please find the biggest and best sharks in your area and see them to get an idea of what to expect. And then file. He's using his anger to try and control you because the LAST thing he wants is to have to face his current reality. This is why he continues to blame what you have done.

I don't excuse what you have done. I don't blame the two of you for rugsweeping, because that is a common (but ill-advised) way to deal with an affair. But if you DON'T deal with the affair, your relationship continues to be vulnerable to one. Personally, I think he is using what you have done as an excuse for him acting on attraction to someone else. It doesn't mean he wasn't emotionally torn apart by what you did, but it does mean that he is going to continue to focus on your actions instead of his own.

File. This week.

Cat

I think LostInHisFog has given a good concrete advice that you can start implementing today. The only thing I would not do is involve the OW but send the NC letter only to your husband and then implement the 28 day NC.

If you must have communication with him during the 28 days, ask him to email what he needs to you. Open up the email only once per day at a certain time and respond only during a certain time frame. Respond only to issues regarding kids.

During this time frame see some lawyers, file and surround yourself with people who love and care for you. Have a friend to lean on. Talk to your IC.

(Hugs)

Walk, I wouldn't have the OP send her BS/WS a letter defining NC. She should take a page from Nike and "just do it."

Don't respond to anything unless it deals with finances or children, and you can take your time to respond if it isn't an emergency.

Set him up in your phone to go to voice mail and then only respond as above.

Only communicate via email and text. Do not discuss anything verbally with him. "I don't think it's a good idea to have that discussion now" is all you need to say.

You don't need to have a reason for anything right now. "I don't think it's a good idea" is all he needs to know. See above.

Set up a time for him to call and speak with his children daily. YOU do not need to be a part of that, other than calling them to the phone. MOST IMPORTANTLY, start a log (I love Excel for this) on the times he calls and speaks to his children AND how often he exercises parenting. This is going to be VERY important down the road. Keep this in a safe place, password protected.

Change all passwords to all personal accounts.

See an attorney and file.

Cat

You are DEEP in grieving, K. I recognize it. So am I.

You are experiencing DEEP guilt and shame because of your past indiscretions.

It also seems to me that you have PTSD which keeps you stuck in those thoughts.

And I think I remember that you also said you also are dealing with depression?

There needs to come a time for forgiveness and forgiveness begins with learning to forgive yourself first.

We are human! We ALL have made mistakes in our lives that changed the direction of our hopes, dreams, future.

I don't know why I feel this way but it seems like you have ordered a death sentence for yourself, K. Why? Why do you feel this way? Do you feel that you are to blame for everything that happened in your marriage? Do you not see any good in who you are, present and past? Are your kid's that bad that you don't see anything positive about them and their lives? And their futures?? Is everything all really complete gloom and doom? No sunlight at all in your lives? Is everything in your life a complete failure? Or are you just choosing to punish yourself and feel like you don't deserve another chance at happiness again in your life?

Just so you know if no one has tod you this recently, every human being that walks this earth and has already spent some time here has skeletons in their closet. Sorry but you aren't the only one who has made poor choices in life. I believe that forgiveness for "yourself" is going to be the key in allowing you to break free from the pain you keep inflicting on yourself.

I think that you have been offered some great advice here, especially the 28 day NC option. Maybe try this concept for the first month of the new year, January 2022? I think that I will for other reasons though.

I don't think you are as bad as you are making yourself out to be, K. Yes, I agree that you have made some terrible choices concerning your marriage and how to handle conflict, but so have others on here and across the world and have come out okay. THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE HAS MADE BAD CHOICES!! YOU AREN'T THE ONLY ONE! PROMISE! My deceased WH also made terrible choices in our marriage but if he was welling to do the work, I was welling to let bygones be bygones.

Your BS seems so angry, controlling and is being extremely mean to you and wants to keep you down while he thinks that he is happy in this great new love affair. If that is the case, then he needs to leave you alone and move on with his own happy crappie life. Whatever. He isn't happy.

I feel like one of you needs to take a step into a new direction and see where it takes you. No one ever said that you needed to be stuck in this bondage forever. You are the only one allowing this to continue on. I kind of feel like you took this "role" on to constantly berate yourself years ago and is now your comfort zone.

Try taking a step towards forgiving yourself. You also deserve grace.

Can you tell us something positive about you and your kid's? Can you tell us something positive about your kid's?

I feel for you, K. My deceased WH also made bad choices in our marriage. But as time goes on, I'm learning to forgive myself for choosing to not recognize things early on and also am learning to forgive him for the path he chose to solve his problems.

There is a thing called hope in life, you know. I would suggest that you try to listen to some of the excellent advice others have given you and just try taking just a baby step is all. Show us that our heartfelt advice and support was not all in vain. You have so many awesome supporters here that only want the best for you. Now use us to boost yourself back up.

There CAN be better days ahead for you and your kid's, but it really up to you to make that happen. And your kid's deserve this change in you the most.

I should know what that means. My two kid's lost their dad in death not even two years ago. He will never return to them or me again. I could never imagine staying down the rest of my life. And if the only reason that I can find to muster up some energy to get up out of bed is to show my kids that I've got this and can do whatver I need to do, then that is what I'm going to do because I am their leader and role model and I want them to see that no matter what life has brought my way, I'm am going to work through the issues and prevail.

I want to be an example and leader to my kid's so that when life throws them curve balls and knocks them to the ground, that they too can get up, dust themselves off and continue down the journey of their lives. I want to be a role model, a leader with a positive attitude for my kids. Doesn't mean I still don't have LOTS of down days still (I do) but what is most important is that they see me at least TRYING to do the right thing. And you should too. If you believe in God, God bless you, K. I hope that you will be able to find something positive in my post to boost you up, even if it's only for a moment. Really, there is hope and nothing is supposed to stay the same in life anyway. Life is constantly evolving. Now come along and catch up to us. You CAN do it!

[This message edited by Hurtmyheart at 5:38 PM, Wednesday, December 29th]

I’ll point out the oft stated double standard here. MiGander stated that she was utterly disgusted by most post. I have no problem with that.

However, MiGander abused her H equally if not more than OP’s husband. However, her H stayed the course and put up with the abuse and lies for years. In fact, in her own words, she abused her entire family for years.

MiGander finally woke to her abusive behavior way more than five years into that abuse. She now states that is is utterly devoted to her H snd family snd loves her H. She’s so appreciative that her H offered her R, despite the many years of abuse.

So what’s the difference? Well, for one, MIGander is a women - double standard applies. Second, she lied, TT, and abused over many, many years. It was gradual abuse - much easier to tolerate on the SI platform. It also happened in the past. OP, on the other hand, is experiencing this in real time, snd in real time on SI.

MiGander also perpetrated much of the abuse against her H in secret and couched in lies. OP’s H, on the other hand, has been very open in is infidelity and abuse - no secrets or lies here.

I’m not picking on MiGander, but simply using her indignant reaction as a foil to point out this oft experienced double standard.

Dude,

To clarify, Kels has stopped her abuse and is doing her best to live as an honest person. Her MH husband is not. Regardless of whether abuse is secret or not, it is still abuse. It was your suggestion that she stick it out in this situation as her MH husband was "testing her" was what disgusted me.

I would give the same advice to a male WH whose BW was openly and flagrantly cheating in an RA: get out.

Abuse is abuse.

As for your allegations about my abuse of my BH, it's true, I abused him for years with my lies. There was mutual abuse going on in our marriage that we are working to correct. Abusing an abuser is still abuse. Kels situation mirrored my own in that way. Our abuse was different (BH financially and emotionally abused me for years, I abused him with my affair after his EA with a friend). None of that excuses what I did. Like Kels' MH husband, I had other choices.

Kels and her MH husband both abused each other with their affairs. I'm not excusing what Kels did, but neither am I condoning what her MH is doing to her now.

If you would like to continue a discussion on MH's, RA's and double standards, I would invite you to PM me as I fear this is becoming a T/J to Kel's posting.

Also, Kels, I wanted to recommend you read "Healing from Shame and Codependency" It's a great book and been a great resource for my own healing.