SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just don't see the double standard.

If anything, if there's one place that seems gender-neutral, it is when a betrayed comes to Just Found Out. Now, for my example, I'm using one like this--the wayward is still actively in an affair, or may be NC, but has put no effort in to make changes.

No one tells the betrayed to 'give it time' and maybe they will come to their senses; they are told....often very harshly....what is thought about their cheating partner, and to take action. As a matter of fact, I don't think that 'Burn the Warlock' has been coined, but definitely the other way around. Again, there are some subtleties, but the sentiments toward an ACTIVE cheater are pretty universal.

Unless I'm addressing the wrong issue; then disregard.

I have taken a pause from posting because quite honestly I'm sick of the labeling, throwing around the term codependency, and "veteran" BS jumping on.other betrayed because they are not choosing to recover in the same way they did.

But for this I will post...

FUCKING STOP. DO NOT DISHONOR HER PAIN OR BRAVERY by turning this thread into a battle of the damn sexes.

We are better than this.

I’m not picking on MiGander, but simply using her indignant reaction as a foil to point out this oft experienced double standard.

Your whole post seems intended to shame MiGander. It's inappropriate.

It's not a double standard. It's not unusual for WSs who really get the damage they did to be very attuned to the kind of minimizing nonsense that you posted. They recognize it because they did it themselves. They know it was wrong when they did it. They know it's wrong when someone else does it. So it's not a double standard.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 8:21 PM, Wednesday, December 29th]

DO NOT DISHONOR HER PAIN OR BRAVERY by turning this thread into a battle of the damn sexes.

^^^This. It's not helpful. At all.

So many responses so I apologize that I cannot direct my answers to each individual but let me do my best to answer some of you.

I cannot hope that he will come back any more. I have no desire to move on as I still love him it I can’t be the only one working on the relationship anymore while he continues to tell me all of this is my fault. Anything that happens is my fault now. Always. He left, that’s my fault and now he says who knows what could have happened if I would have stuck it out with him spending more and more time with her. He has said I never loved him. That hurt terribly. He has said countless things to cut me to the core. We are still in weekly discernment counseling but it doesn’t seem to be helping.

I do feel like a piece of trash that does not deserve happiness. At times I feel he is right and I brought all this pain and agony on myself and my children. But then I try to remember he lied to me for years. He hasn’t been totally honest about him and the OW as I have found letters that state things started before he even approached me about her but I have not confronted him about this. There is no point. I do want my children to be happy and I would never want this to happen to them. I have tried to be the peacekeeper between him and them but he continues to contact them very little and I’m tired of forcing them to respond. In therapy tomorrow I’m telling I’m washing my hands of that. I have a hard enough time with the state of things and don’t have the energy to make everything ok between him and them.

I do need to work on forgiving myself but it’s hard when he constantly reminds me how horrible I am. Please know I feel the guilt bad enough without him throwing it in my face constantly. I have felt that pain and guilt since I cheated and rightly so. I own all of it. And there is nothing I can do to make it better. I wish he could find a way to forgive and really look at what he is doing instead of constantly pointing the finger at me. I don’t know if that is the right stance to take or not? I constantly struggle with all of it.

He says he is in love with her and we are no longer together. I have no idea what is life is like anymore as he shares nothing.

He texts the kids occasionally but not enough in my opinion. He’s left me to take care of them and pick up the pieces and make sure they are ok. If they are not happy to see him he has stated he doesn’t want to be here. That’s where I constantly come in and make it ok.

I’m tired. So tired. I still don’t sleep and have lost over 40 pounds so far. I miss who he was but I don’t like what he has become.

I have started the no contact other than therapy this week. I have to or I will kill myself. He gets in my head until there is nothing left of me. I do think that is a good first baby step. It makes me sad that it doesn’t even seem like he misses us. He’s loving his fantasy life with her and god forbid if I ever say anything nasty about her. A friend of mine posted a meme on FB and tagged me about sidechicks and she got really upset and then he berated me all day. She blocked me and my kids on FB and my 19 year old got upset. He got mad at me cause the kids found out what happened and got frustrated with him for blaming me. He called our oldest and told her it’s none of her business and to stay out of it. She hasn’t talked to him since and again this s my fault.

How do I pick myself up from the depths of hell? I have seen the book recommendations and I am going to read those. Please know your advice has not fallen on deaf ears. I’m just beyond terrified and am having a hard time coping daily.

I wish he knew how much pain I’m in or at least care. He says he does but his actions speak differently.

Let me also say this. He is a physically intimidating person. He has only hurt me twice in our 25 years but he gets scary when he’s mad so I do cower and I am afraid of him.

I cannot find joy in anything. I put a smile on and laugh for my kids and am spending a lot of time with them. I took off of work for the holidays so they wouldn’t feel alone. Everything reminds me of him. The shows we used to watch I know he’s watching with the OW cause he’s told me how similar we are. Makes me sick and has ruined everything I loved. So I’m having a tough time finding myself now. Who am I without him? The only answer I can come up with is worthless and weak.

Kel, I am sorry to say but I think he is distancing himself from all of you. If the kids don't play into his narrative he will turn on them too. And maybe that is the plan so he can move away with the OW.

I think it would be wise to stop the joint therapy. Really what is the point? Invest in IC for you and your kids. I also think that it is on him to form a relationahip with his kids from now on. Their relationahip is out of your control.

Please file before he moves away. A

Can I also add that I have a theory that even if you did not cheat first you would find yourself in this very position. No matter how hurt we feel most of us would not inflict the same pain on the people we claim to love. It's a question of character and integrity.

Your husband is nothing but a coward. Too chicken to own up to his distructive behaviour and be accountable for his actions and choices. He sure loves to snuggle up in the 'I am the victim, it's her fault' sweater.

Right now treat him as a stranger. Have you seen the movie Men in black when an alien takes over a farmers body and the wife is confused how the alien/husband is behaving? That is who your husband is now. Someone who looks like him and talks like him but it's not the man you knew.

I do feel like a piece of trash that does not deserve happiness.

I can't imagine where you're at in your mindspace right now with trying to deal with your A on top of all his ridiculous shenanigans, but I DO know that thoughts like these are lies we tell ourselves when we are in a bad spot. You are not a piece of trash. You do deserve happiness. You are human and you are not perfect - you've made some really bad decisions and done things you regret (and what human hasn't??). But you absolutely do not deserve to be punished forever. I know how very hard it is to turn the volume down on the negative self-talk, but you have to try because those quoted thoughts serve NO purpose in your life.

I do need to work on forgiving myself but it’s hard when he constantly reminds me how horrible I am. Please know I feel the guilt bad enough without him throwing it in my face constantly. I have felt that pain and guilt since I cheated and rightly so. I own all of it. And there is nothing I can do to make it better.

Look I won't pull any punches here, when my xwh cheated on me, he fucking broke me. BROKE me mind, body, and soul. You are seeing first-hand now just how incredibly damaging it is being on the BS side of that fence. But here's the thing - he broke me, but that does NOT give me license to go and treat others like shit because I have a broken spot in me now. I am sure your A broke your wh too, but it 1000% does NOT give him an excuse to level this kind of abuse at you and his children. And what you are dealing with is ABUSE, full-stop. What you did or didn't do doesn't make the choices he is making now okay or excusable in any way. And the choices he is making now are ALL on HIM.

As for making it better... look honey you can't unring the bells you have rung. But what you CAN do is learn from them and use those experiences to make you a kinder and more authentic and better version of yourself going forward. IMHO, if you just stay stuck in the 'I'm so bad-pain-guilt' cycle, then you're doing yourself a huge disservice. Because yes, you've done some bad shit, but such HUGE growth can come from those moments. And just saying here too - doing bad shit does not mean you are an inherently bad person. I think you have been a very broken and hurt person for a long time, and I think you developed some really poor coping mechanisms, but I also think that if you focus on fixing those things the sky is the limit for you.

I wish he knew how much pain I’m in or at least care. He says he does but his actions speak differently.

This is gonna hurt, but he DOES know. He just doesn't give a shit. But the GOOD here is that you actually are turning the corner of looking at what his ACTIONS are telling you. As much as I know that hurts, I know it helped me a LOT when I got there in my situation. It made things clearer for me.

Anything that happens is my fault now. Always. He left, that’s my fault and now he says who knows what could have happened if I would have stuck it out with him spending more and more time with her. He has said I never loved him. That hurt terribly. He has said countless things to cut me to the core. We are still in weekly discernment counseling but it doesn’t seem to be helping.

First - please stop the counseling unless it's about the best way to get the divorce done. you have NO reason to expose any vulnerability to him right now, and doing so will only hurt you.

As for the rest of that load of absolute horse shit he's spewing.... WOW. Yeah shame on you for expecting your husband to not fuck someone else and do ungodly amounts of emotional damage to his children (who already struggle with mental health issues) - yeah you're such an unreasonable shrew for that... (heavy sarcasm) I know it's hard to see when you're in it, but girl that is some ridiculous nonsense and self-justifying bullshit he's saying.

Just hang in there. Focus on you and your kids. Figure out what YOU want going forward. Just take some deep breaths and remember that this too shall pass.

How do I pick myself up from the depths of hell?

Just as I am doing. You have to face each day as it comes and go through the emotions. Your marriage with your WH died and my WH died. We both are grieving and it is a very painful process. I like you also wanted to die on many occasions these past several years, I even had it in my mind how I planned to do it. But I couldn't allow myself to do it because dispite the pain my deceased WH put me through, I knew that there was a life out there worth living... so I kept going with the hopes of things getting better and decided to ride it out. But then he was diagnosed with cancer and a month later he died.

I have been living through a personal hell with my now deceased WH for so many years and sadly though he did try to change for a short period of time but that failed too.

You are in severe trauma and your WH is very emotionally abusive towards you. He doesn't get to be your judge, jury and executioner for the remainder of your life, unless you allow it of course. Is this what you really want and think you deserve?

He doesn't get to berate you anymore. He has already punished you for your crimes and now he has picked up and moved on with someone else. There really is no reason for him to hang onto you anymore. It's all extremely abusive anyways. Again, what good is this doing for your kid's, to see yours and your WH continued battles? They are already so traumatized as is.

I completely understand your fear, that is why I suggested baby steps. I was so frozen at certain points but also felt I had to find a way to get through it. Oh, and I forget to tell you, when my WH was still alive and several years back when he started coming out, he too was divorcing me because he said that "I" was cheating on him! I wasn't. OMG, those were such dark days.

I like what the last poster said, quit doing MARRIAGE counseling together. It is ridiculous at this point. Focus on counseling for you and your kid's instead. Baby step. Unfriend, block and change your password on fb because you are beginning to take your life back, ever so slowly, one step at a time. Another baby step. Stay in the moment.

It is okay to still love your WH, K. No one said not to but enough is enough in allowing him to abuse and berate you for the rest of your life. Take a stand for yourself!

I really hate seeing you continue going down this path with very little progress. It hurts you, your WH and you kid's. This family is broken 💔 😢 and I hope to see you step up your game plan and do little things to help to better yourself, or even if you do it only for the kids.

I am telling you that there is hope and a way better life out there but you gotta start off small. And you only have one day at a time to live. Stay in each day. That was a lifesaver for me. And still is.

I'm still struggling because of what I went through with my deceased WH and then his death. But I also have SO much clarity now of how things really were. I still love certain moments and memories I had made with my deceased WH but I swear to you I would never ever allow this type of abuse from him or from anyone else every again for that matter. I won't deal with that kind of s*** behavior anymore from anyone. Nope, not going to happen. I think you need to also take this stance too, even if you have to fake it to make it.

Keep us updated and share with us some positive steps you've taken to get your life's path back on tract. Just remember life isn't always easy and it can downright suck at times but you can get through this if that is what you really want.

@EllieKMAS thank you for all your kind words. You gave me a lot to think about.

@Walkthestorm…yes I’ve seen that movie and I feel that exact same way. The man I loved is not the one before me. It’s incredibly sad.

He has made it very clear that if the kids don’t go along with his narrative he will distance himself. He told me Xmas eve that he had told me at one point it would be ok for me to make him the villain even though all of this is all my fault but he had no idea how much that would hurt. He said those exact words. Isn’t he the villain here or am I wrong? And if it hurts him, why can’t he own that he has hurt us?

I don’t think he would come to the house anymore if it wasn’t for the counseling appointments. So I’m not ready to let that go yet. I do want to bring up what he said to me Xmas eve and the days following. I’m hoping the counselor will back me up and help him look at it differently.

I really feel for all of you. This pain and all the fear that comes from what is going on for me always feels like it’s more than I can bare.

I go back to work next week in the office twice a week next week and I’m very nervous. I work an hour away from home and even though my kids are grown it scares me to be that far away when I can’t count on him. I did get paperwork for FMLA approved for me and my youngest so if anything happens I can take off. I’m scared I will break down. I haven’t been in the office since he left as my boss let me telework fully after that til the holidays while I adjust. My IC told me today that I probably will break down and that it’s ok. I look so different. I’ve lost so much weight and look tired all the time. I’m nervous about seeing my wedding picture on my desk and the notes from him I had on there.

My apologies. My thoughts are all over the place. I haven’t talked to him in 3 days. I miss joking with him and I miss his touch, his kisses. It feels worse now than when he first left.

Kel, you need to block him from every avenue of communication possible except for the ONE that you need to discuss kids. Stop the weekly counseling and get yourself into individual counseling if you haven't already. He's living a life with OW, why the need for counseling?

Block him from your fb page. It's none of his business any longer.

You will be fine, one day at a time.

Keep in mind he will do what you ALLOW him to do. If he is berating you, it's because you are still communicating. Cut the cord as hard as it is because his abuse is taking a toll on your health. Your children need one parent who is stable and healthy.

You are missing the man you thought he was, not who he actually is. He doesn't care about you. He cares about himself and OW.

Go complete NC with him. It will be difficult at first, but I think as time goes on you will get clarity and see him for the monster he has become.

@HurtMyheart…I’m so sorry for all your pain. You went through so much. I am taking the baby steps. No contact 3 days now. I don’t know why I can’t find any happiness right now. I do fake it for the kids cause I love to see them smile and be happy. My oldest is struggling more than my youngest. Some of that has to do with the difference in their mental health struggles. I started calling us the 3 Musketeers and had many talks with them about how we need to be a team now and I need their help. Especially when I go back to the office. I’m going to need them to step it up a bit at home and help with chores. I’ve been doing it all since he left. I must admit my husband was very helpful doing stuff around the house. It was always shared so it’s been an adjustment doing it all on my own but of course I can do it. Most of all we have each other’s back and the kids are very defensive of me. He has told the kids all of this is my fault and they are tired of hearing it and hold no anger toward me. They knew what I did back then. I had to work to get their forgiveness back then. And they did forgive me. They see the situation better than I do and tell me all the time this isn’t my fault. I have amazing kids that deserve to be happy.

Hi Kels,

Sice your boss is aware of the situation, could you ask them to remove any pictures of your MH husband from your desk?

Its a small thing, but could be helpful for you to not have to see right when you get back.

Sending you strength.

Its kind of silly, but I have found painting my nails cheers me up. I use this Revlon done in a snap stuff that comes in really bright colors and is cheap and doesnt chip.

Maybe give it a shot? Even little things that help you smile can make a difference.

Baby steps.

That’s a good idea MIgander. I may shoot her an email. The nail polish isn’t a bad idea either. I don’t think it’s silly at all. I can appreciate the small things and am glad you found something that makes you smile.

I want to genuinely smile again so badly. I wish you all could have known what I was like in the last 5 years. It took time after I hurt him to find our groove but I thought we were happier than we had ever been. I took such good care of him and ensured he was happy and taken care of. We laughed and loved so much. At least I loved him. So much. Knowing now that all of that was a lie hurts so much but ignorance is bliss.

I need to find a way to be happy alone. That’s so scary since I don’t know how to do that. He’s all I’ve known since I was 19. I don’t know how to adult without him. I don’t know how to do maintenance on the house…some things anyway. Those are things I still lean on him for. And luckily he still does those things for now.

I’m waiting for the moment he tells me he’s moving to North Carolina with her. That moment when he becomes a father to her kids and has nothing to do with ours. As much as I am prepping for that I know it will hurt our children terribly as that is their biggest fear. Little does she know how little help he will be with that. I raised our children, not him. He has no idea how to be a dad.

Really happy to read you’ve started the baby steps, you’ll look back and realise they were gigantic moves in the right direction for your wellbeing.

Do you have to joint counselling right now or at all? The relationship is done, it will reset NC when you see him. Couldn’t you skip for a month? I know you have hope but if a period of NC is going to be the death then it’s already dead.

I know you’re not there yet but over on the divorce forum there is a thread you can use whenever you want to break NC, it’s there to allow you to write what you want to say to him in the moment of weakness but instead of breaking NC you post it there, it’s helpful.

Sending strength, consider buying some meal replacement shakes since you have no appetite.

Edit: as for house maintenance (just read your new post) YouTube that shit, truly there are so many easy to follow vids on how to repair and maintain and it’s empowering finding out you had it in you to do it all along. I find hardware shop guys are also willing to help you choose the right product. Definitely not something to fear, it’s a little fun. If you’re staying and not selling repainting the walls is super distracting and makes you feel fresher, a nice bump in the fresh start direction.

Keep communicating with kids about possible move as it allows you all to bond and manage that, better to make peace with it and it doesn’t happen than not talk and it happens. It’s a blessing in disguise because distance truly speeds up detachment which in turn gives you strength to move forward

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 1:17 AM, Thursday, December 30th]

I must admit my husband was very helpful doing stuff around the house

Yes, the good was good and the bad was bad.

My deceased WH had A LOT of great qualities too. Always helping out around the house, fixing things, always wanting to take care of me and the kid's, took us on awesome camping trips. We loved walking hand n hand at the beach or holding hands while he drove. He always drove when we went places. This side of him was awesome! But it was the dark side of him who tore me up inside. Crushed my soul. How do you reconcile knowing their real truth was not who they presented themselves to be?

His dark side was very dark, IMO. Chasing women behind my back. Having sex with these women or whatever else he did with them. Having at least two long term affairs. Told me in a round about way before his death that there was a man in his CR (Celebrate Recovery) group that had slept with at least 10 other women and yet his wife (me. Of course I didn't know that it was me who he was referring to at the time) had kept on forgiving him but he couldn't stop doing it. What a sick f***. I get so angry when I think about this.

What kind weak I guess apology was that? Coward. I am thinking that there were more other women. He just lost count of how many.

Yeah, I still go through a lot of hard times but also manage to get myself through the day and have some fun. And yes, right now I am feeling a bit vindictive about what I am about to say but I guess that there is a little silver lining in all of this in that he didn't get to take his hard earned money with him. And I guess his leaving it all to me which I rightfully deserved in the first place after 35 years together was I guess a small token of an apology. Maybe his last other women was hoping that he loved her enough to leave her some too??

To me all of the money really wasn't worth the hell he put me through. I would rather had an emotionally and psychologically healthy husband and an honest marriage over the money he left to me. I was even willing to work things out if he was willing to fix his problems, I loved him that much to want to help and forgive him because I know that life could be hard.

Somehow, I do believe that he knows this now. He knows that honest love instead gifts is what I truly wanted from him.

Too late though. He had his chance to do things right and now he is gone. His time is up. And if I can help others out and somehow convince them that going through this pain and hoping for change in that other person is just not worth it, then I will have done something good giving back to society.

I believe that I hear strength in your soul, K. I think that this is the first time I can feel it since I first reached out to you. Keep it up, you are doing good.

I would love for you to rise above and become who you are supposed to become. It's okay to fall but the ultimate goal is to get up and become the best version of you are supposed to be. I will tell you if my deceased WH were able to rise above and turn his life around, he would have been a magnificent spouse. And this is what I want for you too, to rise up, learn to forgive yourself and become that best version of who you are meant to be. I'm rooting for you, K. You've got this one day at a time. No more letting hi berate you and continue to pull you down. You've already done your time. Proud of you.

I know that your story is a bit different than mine is K but I wanted you know that my deceased WH cheated throughout the whole marriage, pretty much from start to finish. And he never admitted it to me.

You are much further ahead than he ever was. Admitting what you did was a good first step in fixing yourself. I really think that you are on the right path.

@Lostinhisfog I get what you’re saying about the counseling. There are still some things I feel need to get worked out. Especially communication with the kids. I need to think on that one but I hear you. Thanks for the heads up on the NC forum. And the YouTube videos.

@Hurtmyheart I tend to do better and feel a tiny bit of strength when I do no contact. When he’s not in my head all the time telling me how worthless I am I do better and start to find my strength. I do own what I did and at the very least he can never say I don’t. Unfortunately he can’t say the same.

I apologize for not reading all the responses. I am going to step back from his affair. In all honesty has he bullied you for years? I am not trying to make him a bad guy if he isn’t. I am trying to get where you were emotionally when you cheated. What were you looking for? What was your daily life like? When people come here they bring their story but we don’t hear the other unless they post as well. So, was he a loving husband? Were you intimidated by him?
The people I know who cheated were miserable in their marriages and used a hurtful affair to get out of if them. Most of them are women who married their AP. I am pretty vocal about the husbands they hurt because they admit they were decent guys. They married too young and divorced within a few years. They are devoted to their second husbands and don’t cheat.
To go back to your husband. If he was a loving, caring person then your cheating is a mystery to me. If he was a bully it answers my question. So do you love him or do you wish you did? If he continues to berate you he is guilty of emotional abuse and you need to stay away from, his texts and any other way he tries to harm you.