SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So my 14 yo daughter has been very secretive about her phone lately, turning it face-down, etc. She also has a friend from church who we've known for years that she's started to want to hang out with more. I thought it was weird, just because this person is a year younger and they weren't ever close until a few months ago. Yesterday, she asked to hang out with this person, and I decided to check her texts. Which I've never done, because I do think kids deserve privacy. What I found was lots of sexually-charged discussions and confirmation that this was definitely a romantic thing. When I asked her about it, she told me at first that it was a joke, then said that yes, this was her girlfriend and that she thinks she might be bisexual.

I'm at a loss here. There are so many levels to this. First, the sexting with an 8th grader, is not okay in my opinion. Male or female. If it was a boy, I'd be talking to his parents. Apparently this girl is not "out" to her parents, so I'm obviously not going to out her. BUT, this girl goes to my church. I'm friendly with her mom (have done bible studies with her for years). Just like an affair, I feel like I have to hold onto yet ANOTHER secret that was not my choice. Also, I'm not even sure how to correctly parent my daughter now. She's lied to us about her relationship with this person, even having sleepovers with her in our home (she chose to do this when I was out of town bc I'm sure she knows I'd be paying more attention than her dad). I don't let her 17 yo brother have his girlfriend sleepover, so it's not like I'm playing favorites here.

THere's also a bigger issue, that in looking at her texts and TikTok's, she is saying that someone in middle school told her to kill herself, that she's had an eating disorder for 5 years, etc. I feel awful that she hasn't shared any of this. We did take her to a therapist last year, but she only went a handful of times and said she was fine. I feel like her life started falling apart when DDay 1 happened. She went from a kid with a ton of activities and friends to someone who is completely different and has trouble keeping friendships going. I'm not even sure if she's really thinking she's bisexual or she just loves the attention that this girl is heaping on her and it's "safe", you know? (But obviously I wouldn't say that to her because I don't want her to think I'm dismissive of her.)

Ugh. I don't know. I don't know what I need. I am just so incredibly tired of life throwing curveballs, especially when I'm still struggling to find my own peace. I guess first and foremost, I don't want to say/do the wrong thing here. She broke up with this girl because she thinks I wanted her to. (I didn't, and told her that, but I told her that she was putting me in a difficult situation with the other girls' parents and that I felt like the physical/sexual aspect of the relationship was a lot, especially when one of them is barely 14 and if this were a boy, I'd have already called his mom and set boundaries on how they could interact. (They see each other bc of church at least 3x/week and go on retreats, do lock-ins, etc.) We are like this with other kid relationships at church (keep a watchful eye) as well as with her brother and his relationships. But I know she sees this (and most things honestly) as a dig at her. How do I support her while also just being a parent of a teenager?

I’m sorry to say that I do not have answer number one for you, except that you seem to be on the right track.

Just, as a mother who has had some really different kinds of struggles with her kids, I want to tell you that I’m thinking of you, and I’m supporting you all the way.

I’m sure someone will come along in a little bit who can shed some better light.

Hang in there!

I don't know if this is allowed to be posted - but there is an organization named PFFLAG which stands for Parents/Friends/Family of Lesbians and Gays which is highly rated. They have meetings and you could get answers there about how to bridge the communication gap with your daughter. All are welcome to attend.

Communication is the key.

My daughter came out to me about a year and a half ago when she was 14. She had asked to see a therapist some months before and I think she helped dd talk to me about it. I think it's great that your dd did finally open up to you.

I also had to be the one to shut down the sleepovers. DD had a girlfriend and by the time I realized that they were an item, they had had some sleepovers. She still doesn't understand why that isn't a good idea. And her girlfriend wasn't out to her mom, either, so I struggled with that. I just let them both know that I cared about both of them. (They have since broken up.)

I found a web site called Ditch the Labels that helped me. I think it's geared more toward teens, but there was enough parent information as well. Plus it was helpful to read the teen information to get an idea of where teens are coming from with this. It is not easy for any of us.

As far as the therapist goes, who said she was fine, your dd or her therapist? If your daughter is willing to try again, it could be a good outlet for her. My dd chooses to go and it helps her deal with her anxiety and depression. It also helped her with her friend-making skills and now she has a few close friends.

Ooof that's a tough one TX. I think the first and foremost thing is to make sure your daughter knows that her orientation has no bearing on your love for her as her mother. I am sure you love her regardless and I'm sure she knows that, but I think it's an important thing to reiterate to her at this point. Give her the comfort of knowing that she can always come talk to you about anything.

Likewise, her orientation here has no bearing on the parenting you need to do with her. You wouldn't let a 14 yo have sleepovers with their bf/gf because it's wildly inappropriate, so whether she's dating a girl or a boy doesn't really matter because either way it's inappropriate for her to be doing what she's doing. The biggest reason here IMHO is for her legal safety. If the other girl isn't out and comes from a church-y family (depending on how the parents land on lgbtq issues it may be affecting her decision to stay in the closet), your daughter being older even by a year and having this kind of relationship with the other girl could get her (and you) into legal hot water. Especially doing so over texting is shaky ground. I have a dear friend who's gay son got into legal trouble for a very similar situation.

I believe the Trevor Project also has some excellent literature on how to navigate the waters with teens in the lgbtqia+ spectrum.

Hey TX,

Long time no talk mate. I am really sorry you are going through this, and I don't have any good advice, just my own experience. I found out my sister was lesbian in the 7th grade, when I walked in on her making out and heavy petting with my "girlfriend". Over the years she tried to suppress it. Got real religious, and we started to drift apart when she tried to come into my bedroom and break my Kansas records because they were wrong or something. Then went to a very prominent Baptist university in Lynchburg VA. Moved to South Korea to minister to the people there. We drifted apart and didn't have much contact until later in life. Long story short, she had tried to live her life in a manner that my mom and other family members wanted because she knew they wouldn't accept her then. She never formed a relationship with a man, because, it just wasn't her thing no matter how she denied it.

I remember when she "came out" to me. We met her and her roommate for lunch on the water, and she told me the big reveal. She was pretty shocked when my wife and I were like, we know, we've always known. I'm skipping a lot of details, but the gist is I never cared about my sister's sexuality, but she thought that I and others did. She spent a large part of her life trying to be part of people that would never accept who she actually was and excluded those that would because of outside expectations. It was fucked up for a couple of decades. A lot of time lost there. To wrap up this story, a year ago Monday I walked both her partner of 18 years and her down the aisle. One at a time. Beautiful day.

So I don't know about what you are going through from the parent perspective, but I've been close to the situation. It's very difficult to give advice as there are so many variables in any situation. We've talked, and I know we differ philosophically in some areas like religion, but you know I'm coming from a place where we have the same values. I want you to understand that first, it probably isn't that uncommon. Sort of like when everyone used to be right handed until they stopped preventing kids from using their left hands and even tying them behind their backs so they couldn't write with them. Then they realized they were great at getting powerful RH hitters out in the 9th and became all the rage. What your daughter is going through really isn't anything different than any person goes through growing up, it's that this is them finding out about their sexuality vice whether they want to be a fireman or engineer. Teens are a hurricane prediction map of a ton of outcomes in the making, and you just don't know what happens until they hit land.

Love her. Honor her decisions and mistakes. Admonish her for deception and secrecy. Let her know that she can tell you anything and you will accept her as she is, even if you don't agree with it. Who knows if it's a phase or it's just who she is? The most important thing is that she knows that she doesn't have to hide that from her dad. In my opinion, it's not the gender on the other end of the hiding, it's the hiding. Seems people mainly hide things they know others won't approve of.

Best of luck to you mate, I really sympathize with what you are going through.

Not my own kid, but my niece.

We called it when she was like 3. But she followed the traditional route for most of her childhood, did the dance and recitals, and loved it, but she also played every sport she could.
In high school she had a steady boyfriend for about a year and a half, then they broke up. Pretty quickly after that a friend of hers basically moved into their home due to a really nasty home situation. Well she was my nieces girlfriend at the time. I'm not sure if my sister knew the whole time, or not, but suspect she did, but kept it from dad, because he would struggle with it.

Then off to college, the girlfriend moved out of my sisters home about 6 months after my niece left for school. She had managed to get a job, and her and few friends found a cheap place to rent together. My niece finally came out to family in her last year of school, and it was a no big deal thing for us. Her dad wanted her to be straight, I think mainly because he didn't want life to be more difficult than it already is. But I think he gets being happy is the most important piece, and she is very happy.
She and her partner are marrying next September, and they are going to have a real wedding, with 2 brides, and it will be beautiful, because they truly love each other, and are extremely happy.

That being said the girlfriend lived in their home, and shared a room with my niece, because it was the right thing to do. They were also in High School and more mature than your situation.

I can tell you that I would not allow a girl to sleep over with my son when he was in middle school. I would not allow a boy to sleep over my daughter either at that age. But kids find a way to do the things they want to do. I would encourage you to keep an open dialogue, judgement free, but also being firm that they are pretty young for this stuff, and it's not love. But can be fun, and interesting.

Just so you know stuff happens even when you are a vigilant parent. My daughter had a "friend" over when she was in 8th grade, and I wasn't a fan of this girl, she was a year older than my daughter, but they were in band together, also had gone to church/ vacation bible school together from the time they were little. Well this girl snuck out of my daughters room, and into my sons room he was a year older than her, and she offered him a BJ. So my daughter was 13.5, the friend was 14.5, and my son was almost 16. When I found out about it, I was PISSED OFF. Told the friend she was no longer allowed to spend the night here, and if she came over for events would not be allowed in rooms w/ doors closed. I also called her mother, and let her know the situation. Mom tried to minimize it, and was not surprised, so I think this girl was sexually active from a young age.

My child is gay. She had sleepovers before she came out..and after. There are rules. First, no girlfriends can sleep over. But her other friends,who I have known for years,and know them to basically be boy crazy? Absolutely. Because I know not every girl is gay,just because my child is. Regardless, the bedroom door is open, all night. I also trust my daughter to respect my rules. I've never had an issue.

How to parent your child? Just as you did before,only with a few adjustments.

Your job,as a parent,is to love your child. Gay,straight bi,or trans. Love them. Fiercely.

I can understand your hesitation. I may have felt differently if I found all of this on my own. I'm fortunate that my daughter came out to me. There hasn't been any secrecy. She's very open with me,and I am with her as well.

I'm glad you aren't going to out this other girl to her parents. That is something she will do,if she feels comfortable. Not all parents are as accepting as they should be. It might really cause her some damage if you were to out her.

Get her back into therapy. Stress to her that it's not because she is bisexual, but because you want her to feel free to speak to an unbiased third party who can help her with the challenges she is going through. Even if she says she's fine. My daughter is in therapy and it's made a world of difference.

Don't make her being bisexual a big deal. Because it's really not. It's just another part of who she is.

My daughter told me she was gay,and I said ok,and asked what she wanted for dinner. Because it didn't make any difference to me.
At all. This was 3 years ago. She told me,at first,she was taken aback,because of my attitude. Coming out was a huge thing for her,so she thought it would be for me as well. She has since told me my response was perfect. I treated it like it wasn't a big deal..because it wasn't a big deal.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:49 PM, Wednesday, October 19th]

You know this other girl’s mother, you go to the same church, you’re friendly with each other, and you’re not a homophobic monster… why do you assume that the other mother will be?

What are you going to do if the girl’s mother finds out that her daughter and yours have been sexting and comes to you about it? Are you going to pretend you didn’t know? What if she feels betrayed that you didn’t tell her?

For that matter, how would you feel if you found out that the girl’s mother knew all along but didn’t tell you?

First, THANK YOU so much for taking the time to answer and share with me. It seems like I posted and ghosted, but it's been an emotional week and I've been reading, but haven't had the time to process much or emotional ability to respond.

What's Right - I see how much you love your kids and struggle when they struggle. Thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone.

JeannieGirl - Thank you. Of course I live smack dab in the middle of the PFLAG chapters in my metroplex, but I've sent emails to find out about meetings. It would be great to have support from other people who have walked in my shoes.

Sally24 -

She still doesn't understand why that isn't a good idea. And her girlfriend wasn't out to her mom, either, so I struggled with that. I just let them both know that I cared about both of them. (They have since broken up.)

I think this is the hardest part. The other parents don't know and the other girl isn't ready to tell them, so I hate having this information about their child being sexually active (still not sure what happened with the sleepover but the sexting is definitely more than I am comfortable with). As the parent of a teenager, my initial instinct was to make sure age-appropriate boundaries are set and that there are eyes on them like they would be on heteronormative teens.

as for

As far as the therapist goes, who said she was fine, your dd or her therapist?

The therapist basically dropped her because she said she wasn't really sharing much. My daughter said at that time that she was fine and wasn't interested in finding someone else. This week my daughter said she didn't feel comfortable and told the therapist NOTHING. So we have started looking for more choices and I told her we'd search until we find someone she feels okay sharing hard things with.

Thank you for sharing Ditchthelabels. I've looked at some of the resources and will share it with my daughter as well.

Ellie - Hi! YES! She's having a hard time separating the orientation issue with the "I lied to my parents so my girlfriend could sleep over" issue. I keep telling her this is a parenting a teen thing, and the only reason it's more complicated is because I CAN'T talk to the other person's parents about setting boundaries when the girls are together or make sure eyes are on them at church activities (apparently the other girl wanted her to sneak into the bathroom to make out during youth and they've were just at a lock-in together). Or even make sure that their middle schooler is "dating" a freshman (which TBH, I think is weird bc there is such a big difference between MS and HS in my opinion). It's hard for her to see that I'd be doing the same thing with a boy, but the situation makes things more complex. Thanks for mentioning the Trevor Project. It looks like they have hotlines, so I shared those with my daughter and am thinking of having her share them with the other girl - it also has a way for kids to connect, which is so important. Living in a very red area, there's not too much public support.

Tred - Thank you for sharing your sister's story. I am sorry that she struggled, but I love the end and I'm glad she had a brother like you. This is exactly why I am hoping I can help my daughter feel loved and supported. I don't want her to ever feel "less than" or try to pretend she's someone else to please others. Life is hard enough.

Tush - Thanks for sharing. I'm glad your niece is finding her happy. I have now read umpteen articles by people who are LGBTQ and my biggest take-away is how HARD this all is and how heartbreaking some reactions from family, friends and community can be. I definitely wish this was all happening three years from now, but I agree that middle school is just too young.

Just so you know stuff happens even when you are a vigilant parent.

Your story was actually one of my having teenager anxieties. My kids are 3 years apart in school and I've heard horror stories about sleepovers and sex between siblings/friends. I always pictured myself sleeping in the hallway if they ever had friends over at the same time, but it's hasn't happened yet. Kids will definitely find a way. I know I didn't always make the best choices either.

HellFire - Thank you so much for your wisdom.

I may have felt differently if I found all of this on my own. I'm fortunate that my daughter came out to me. There hasn't been any secrecy. She's very open with me,and I am with her as well.

Yes, unfortunately the way I found out was a little too close to my DDay 1 and it really threw me into a bad place for a couple of days. It wasn't the orientation per say, but the secrecy, the lying, the graphic nature of the texts I read, and more importantly the stuff I found about her harming herself and being bullied. I felt like I failed to make myself a safe space for her. I am glad your relationship with your daughter is close. I hope that we'll get closer to that someday.

Get her back into therapy. Stress to her that it's not because she is bisexual, but because you want her to feel free to speak to an unbiased third party who can help her with the challenges she is going through.

I agree and am working on it. I actually don't think her most pressing issue is her sexuality, but her depression and anxiety. I've asked my therapist for someone who is affirming as unfortunately many recommendations of my friends with anxiety/OCD kids are "Christian" counselors (and while I'd love to think that all Christian counselors would be loving, I can't take that chance). I'm glad your daughter finds therapy helpful. Hopefully I can find someone that my daughter trusts.

Thanks for the sleepover mention. This is the kind of thing that I don't really have experience with. I do not want her current friendships damaged and if I can trust that she'll be honest about her relationships and respect boundaries, it would be easier to deal with!

She has since told me my response was perfect. I treated it like it wasn't a big deal..because it wasn't a big deal.

This is beautiful to read.

Bluer than Blue

You know this other girl’s mother, you go to the same church, you’re friendly with each other, and you’re not a homophobic monster… why do you assume that the other mother will be

I actually don't assume that at all. I have no idea how she'll react. I have been in bible study with her and she has talked about a cousin that came out as a transsexual and how awful their whole family reacted to it. She herself said she didn't know how she felt about it. She is from a very small town in Mississippi and they are very religious. That said, her daughter is very masculine in her dress and has a poster of a wrestler in a bikini above her bed, so I'm guessing they have an inkling. However, I've talked with my daughter and this other girl has NOT come out to her parents and is not ready to. I will NOT out her to her parents. This is why I told my daughter that she cannot continue a relationship with this girl. If she wanted to, I would need to talk with the other girl's parents first and that can't happen if she doesn't WILLINGLY COME OUT TO HER PARENTS first. I will NOT out her. I've read two books this week and countless articles and essays. There is no way in hell I'm making that choice for another person.

I feel like you are attacking ME here, by the way. Would I want to know? Of course. I feel AWFUL and GUILTY that I couldn't just call the other mom and say "hey, here's what I found." At first, I thought that the girl was out to her family and I could just do that. Then I found out she was not out and not ready because she didn't know what her parents would do. Honestly, I'd hope if the situation were reversed that the other parent cared enough about my child's mental health not to threaten her. Even my kid, growing up in a household that is vocal about our acceptance of those who identify LGBTQ, was scared to be honest with me. If she finds out and is upset, I'd understand. But I hope she'd understand why I did it. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd just be sad that my child didn't feel like I was safe to open up to. As I do now. I'm not sure what "help" your post was meant to give, but I'd appreciate if you refrained from any further questioning of me and my morality. The very last thing I need right now is someone judging me for trying to figure out the best way to handle this very tricky situation.

Editing today to add: BTB, after thinking, I'm going to take your post as well-meaning and I'm sorry I got rankled. Obviously it touched a nerve. Honesty is one of my core values - always has been and other people lying is a big trigger for me post DDay (my husband and kids know this - doesn't stop my kids from lying, but they do know lying is a big deal to me). So holding onto information or keeping a "secret" from this other girl's parents, makes me feel horrible, but she's not a lying cheating husband, she's a scared kid. Now if she was in danger, or talking about harming herself, etc, then I 100% would be talking to her parents. But outing her is just wrong on any level.

Thanks again to everyone who shared and gave helpful advice, this place is full of some incredibly wise and wonderful humans.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 5:54 PM, Monday, October 24th]

I just want to confirm that I wasn't judging or attacking you; I was trying to provide you with an alternate viewpoint and other factors that you need to consider, namely the perspective of the other parent. I imagine that it's much more challenging for you to keep this secret from someone you know and are good terms with than if the other mother was a complete stranger or passing acquaintance.

I will NOT out her to her parents. This is why I told my daughter that she cannot continue a relationship with this girl. If she wanted to, I would need to talk with the other girl's parents first and that can't happen if she doesn't WILLINGLY COME OUT TO HER PARENTS first.

If you daughter listens to you, then you should buy a lotto ticket... because I think the chances of an infatuated teenager obeying their parents' demand to end a relationship are about the same as winning megamillions.

You can hope for the best, but you should be prepared for the very likely possibility that this relationship will continue underground. If the other mother finds out, hopefully you will be able to talk about it reasonably and maybe even have a laugh about it over coffee... but if not, you just need to figure out how you will handle a confrontation when/if it comes.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:07 PM, Tuesday, October 25th]

You know this other girl’s mother, you go to the same church, you’re friendly with each other, and you’re not a homophobic monster… why do you assume that the other mother will be?

What are you going to do if the girl’s mother finds out that her daughter and yours have been sexting and comes to you about it? Are you going to pretend you didn’t know? What if she feels betrayed that you didn’t tell her?

For that matter, how would you feel if you found out that the girl’s mother knew all along but didn’t tell you?

BTB, what if outing this girl causes her harm? It could have a serious negative effect on her life. You can't make assumptions about how people will take the news.

There is some information that should only come from the person involved. There is never a good reason to out someone, most especially a child who doesn't have control over their own life circumstances.

I agree not outing the other girl, that is for her to do on her timing. Your daughter needs to know you support her and will be there for her, but at the same time you have to protect her sexually. No more sleep overs, have the same rules as your Son and his girlfriend.

BTB

If you daughter listens to you, then you should buy a lotto ticket... because I think the chances of an infatuated teenager obeying their parents' demand to end a relationship are about the same as winning megamillions.

Yeah, I definitely don't think my daughter is incapable of lying to me about this. The helpful part of this is that neither of these kids drive, live near each other or even go to school in the same district. My husband is involved with youth group and there will be zero chance for them to be physically be alone when at church. I also will start being there more often. Could they still be on Snapchat talking? Sure. If there's anything I've learned from betrayal it's that you can't control someone else. I've put whatever measures in place that I can (she has limitations on her phone, I approve all apps, etc.) but the best defense I have is to keep the dialogue open and to work on making our relationship better so that she trusts me and I can trust her again. If they do go underground and her parents find out, then it will be a relief for me. No secrets! And if her parents take it poorly or blame me or my daughter, that's not really my problem. If they feel hurt that I knew, that's totally understandable and I'd hope they'd be understanding of why I didn't out their daughter. But honestly, if there was some crazy blow-up or they treated me or my daughter or my family poorly? It would say more about them than me and I'd be totally happy to move to a more openly affirming church anyway if push came to shove. My kid is more important what anyone else wants to think about me.

PTSI

There is some information that should only come from the person involved. There is never a good reason to out someone, most especially a child who doesn't have control over their own life circumstances.

Yes!

Tanner - Yes, I definitely agree. My daughter thinks we are picking on her because of the same sex relationship, but she doesn't realize that the exact same precautions would be taken if it were a boy. Yes, your dad is going to watch you like a hawk and I did read your texts - because we only want to protect our baby from getting into situations she's not emotionally mature enough for. I just wish this had happened with her first boyfriend last year, but their texts were definitely more like you'd expect from 8th graders - lots of emojis and hearts and fire signs and she never had him sleepover. (Not saying I wish this happened with a boy in general, just wish she had a different datapoint for parents being strict about relationship/sex and not just this one.)

[This message edited by TX1995 at 6:25 PM, Wednesday, October 26th]

I think you are doing a fabulous job of navigating all the challenges that you are facing as a parent of a teenager coming out. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I was just reading an article in the Washington Post, about a group called Mama Bears - a nationwide group of parents of LGBTQ kids. The reason I'm mentioning it here is because the first story they tell is of an event in Dallas, where these women gather to offer support to these kids at the Dallas Pride festival.

Might be worth checking out.

My daughter came out as pan sexual in middle school. She is into the personality not necessarily the gender. So if she was dating a girl or a guy no sleep overs till 17. We preferred that to the sneaking around for sex. We also got her into a day program for the bullying and her chronic illness which started her cutting.

Number4 - Thank you for your kind words of encouragement and for the mention of the MamaBear organization. I looked at their website and they have some really neat initiatives that I'm going to look into getting involved with!

PricklePatch - Thanks for the perspective and advice with sleepovers! I'm sorry your daughter had to deal with bullies and self-harm, I hope she's doing better. I definitely hope the therapy we find for my daughter can help with all of the same.

So one of my sons is maybe something other than straight. I know that's a strange way to word that, but it's not up to me to put a label on it. He's in his 20s, and it's been a process since around the time he was 14.

He had girlfriends or crushes at first. Then he started saying, "Bold of you to presume...", if we spoke of a future girlfriend or wife. I assumed he was gay, and I didn't discuss it unless he brought it up. The conversations have been all over the place from questions of how you know your sexuality to forms of attraction and being attracted to men to saying he definitely wants a long term relationship with a woman. I think it stands now at him being attracted to both sexes, but really considering any personality, character, and intellectual connection to be primary concerns. I mean, as I understand it.

I never considered stopping same sex overnights. I trusted him. We actually had an almost opposite discussion. I'm not that great at words, and probably didn't communicate it well then or now, but when I think back to puberty and adolescence and navigating that transition into adulthood, my girl friends were a refuge. I didn't have to worry about sex and potential sexual attraction and romantic relationships being a part of that. I was sorry he didn't have that and wondered if he missed it.

My son told me I was overthinking it.

We also had a big, historic house we were restoring during his high school years. It wasn't occupied. Ok, we still havent fully restored it. He and his friends call it the poker house and had/have poker nights there. They could have used it anytime for sex really. I trusted my son. The house is right off the town square, and we know the neighbors well so nothing too crazy could have happened. My son and a few of his friends were also more the type to study poker hands and learn odds and think they could become professional internet poker players rather than other interests.

I grew up in a different time of sexual norms than my children. Some of my son's attitudes are more about telling me to keep my old-fashioned labels and ideas of sexuality and gender away from him. I try to learn and evolve. Years ago I was upset that my personal tools (tape measure, hammer, soldering iron) kept going missing from their designated place. I threatened to buy pink tools. My son said that wouldn't help because pink was his second favorite color after purple. Ok, it was ridiculous for me to think it mattered. My son also likes scented candles and soaps and prefers flowery and tropical scents. I regularly buy him feminine scents and colors now.

My son doesn't do his nails or wear eyeliner, but his friend does sometimes. My son told me that is based. His friend was the prom king too. I don't think it was ironic. He's genuinely a personable, interesting, and talented young man. They also all went to the prom as a mixed-sex friend group, something my friend said her daughter also did. He has gender fluid friends. I didn't even know what that was until he told me.

Yet, I fully understand not telling anyone. For one thing, I know a lot about my children and their friends because they are very open with me. A lot. Things I would want to know as that child's parent. The price I pay for them being open with me is my silence. I guess I would have a moral dilemma if they were in immediate harm, but that's never come up. These situations have normally led to discussions with my children of my situations and their own behaviour.

Sexuality feels personal. It feels like my son's personal business. I haven't spoken to the people who are my parenting models including family and closest friends. They all know my son. I won't talk to them unless he does. He knows I have his back. We've discussed that, and even that I will drop friends and family if they aren't supportive.

I think sexting is probably now a normal sexual behavior. 14 sounds so young, but unfortunately probably in the range of normal. And your daughter's description makes sense. "Practicing" sexuality- like girls "practicing" kissing in the old days. I never did that, but I did once play a weird touching game my female cousin introduced called chicken. I was the youngest and determined not to say chicken. I only felt sweet younger cousin victory after i won, but if I did feel something else, I'm not sure it would have had anything to do with sexual orientation.

human trampoline Thank you so much for your response and insight. Funny enough, your son sounds like mine (mine admonishes me for being ancient when it comes to how young adults live/act these days). It's definitely been interesting to re-learn how to think about gender/sexuality. It sounds like you have a very open line of communication with your son - what a great safe space for he and his friends to grow up in!

(And I'm afraid you are right about the sexting being the norm these days. I had a very eye-opening discussion with both kids the other night about what they see shared on their social media!)

I cannot emphasize enough the HELP you would get on this issue -- and many others, through PFLAG. I've spoken to their groups several times and it's so heart-warming to see teens there with their parents, talking over issues. Taking your daughter WITH you to a PFLAG meeting would be the best thing ever. It's a sensitive subject about the other girl because teen suicide among gay teens is horrific. Some parents totally abandon their gay children at an early age and that causes such trauma. I totally agree it is not your place to out the other girl. You might suggest she find and attend a local PFLAG meeting in HER area where she would be surrounded with support on how to deal with her issues, if any, with her parents. PFLAG chapters even sponsor safe places for teens to go when they are kicked out of there homes and that happens very often.

It's so great you have an open dialogue with your daughter as that is so very important.

[This message edited by Jeaniegirl at 6:25 PM, Tuesday, November 1st]