SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Confused282, you made so many good recommendations.

Do you think it would be a good idea to have my wife read through this entire thread?

Brother I'm sorry you're here but your WW is no R material by a very long shot, she may still be in an active A. We've seen THOUSANDS of stories like yours here on SI and other forums, just look at your member number, she still denying the A, that means she's not even remorseful yet, one of the cardinal rules here on SI is that you cannot successfully R with an unremorseful WS (Wayward Spouse). I suggest you get 2 VARs (Voice Activated Recorder), you can order them online or places like Walmart, BestBuy etc., get familiar with them, make sure you deactivate any "beeps" and put black tape over any light before you place one in her car under the seat with some velcro (you can get velcro online or at a hardware store) and place the other one inside the house in the bedroom or wherever she goes to talk most of the time, if she's still to the same OM or any other you should find out in a few days/weeks, As need communication and cheaters feel safe when alone in their vehicles. Be prepared for things you may not want to hear, even about you or your family, after that you if you still want to consider R here's a short list of the basics that have stood the test of time here on SI and other infidelity forums:

1) FULL EXPOSURE: This is the number one step and one of the most important ones, you should expose her A with OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) and also with all family and close friends WITHOUT WARNING (very important), OBS will typically help with NC (No Contact) making it more difficult, but after exposure the OM will typically dump your WW like a bad habit in an effort to try to save his own M. Full exposure with close relatives (her parents if alive and should be #1 on the list followed by children) and close mutual friends typically helps to kill the "beautiful, exciting and romantic" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates the A the less likely she will be to continue it or start another in the future, plus OBS needs to know, it's the right thing to do.

2) No Contact: She needs to send an NC FOREVER text to POSOM, one that you approve and watch her hit "send", short and to the point, no sweet goodbyes or last meet up for "closure" aka one last f*ck.

3) She needs to offer FULL on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords FOREVER, no questions asked. There shouldn't be any "privacy" in a M other than toilet time, once you tie the knot it becomes "our privacy", also do not confuse "privacy" with "secrecy" to have an A.

4) Demand she writes a complete timeline of the A followed by a polygraph, then make her read it out loud to you (helps with guilt and remorse in most cases), make sure you follow through with it, cheaters sometimes agree to it at first in an attempt the BS assume that they're telling the truth. Make sure you compile a list of questions to ask her before the poly, you may even get some version of the infamous "parking lot confession" right before, during or even after the test.

5) She needs to take an STD/STI test (you should too), early detection is very important for treatment, some STDs could remain formant for years, make sure you see the actual written results, make sure you go with her, the "walk of shame to the doctor's office could help with remorse.

6) No more GNOs or trips with the girls unless you are present, a consequence of her huge betrayal.

7) Contact a D attorney (or two) to know your legal options, some offer a free initial consult, while you're at it ask about an enforceable postnuptial agreement in case you decide to D later (no alimony, she doesn't touch your retirement, etc.).

8) She needs to to go IC (Individual Counseling) to find out her "whys", make sure the counselor specializes in infidelity (very important), forget MC for now, at this stage is usually waste of time and money, the M didn't cheat she did.

9) She needs to read "Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass" and "How To Help Your Spouse Heal after Your Affair" by Linda McDonald, both available for download, you should read them too.

If she refuses any of the above just file for D and have her served without warning for maximum impact, D takes a long time and can be stopped if she comes around, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality then nothing will, if so just let the D run its course and get out of infidelity. Others will chime in with more advice, keep posting frequently, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this difficult situation.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 5:05 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

Do you think it would be a good idea to have my wife read through this entire thread?

DO NOT tell her about this site PERIOD ! and NEVER reveal your sources.

Do not tell her about this site.

Second don’t tell her about this site.

This is your safe space. If you show her something like the Joseph letter print it out and remove any identifiers.

This is your space. Also it can have bad consequences if she is still lying.

Her answers could become responses to what she is reading here making them not genuine.

My d-day was 12 years ago, and I've been on SI almost that long, and I urge you to keep SI to yourself for now.

I suggest, in addition to NOT "Just Friends", reading https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/ and seeing if it makes sense to you.

It made a lot of sense to me, and I printed it out when I found SI. I cut off the footer of the printout, because it referred to SI. I gave it to my W for her to read. I think it helped.

*****

If I leave her it will turn my world upside down in so many ways. I want to make sure that I am ready to leave before filing papers.

I agree on not making decisions until you're ready. That may take longer than you want it to take, but my very strong reco is to let the decisions grow - do not force yourself to choose one way or another.

Also, my bet is that your world has already turned upside down. Don't discount that - you've been betrayed and that's traumatic. You're in a new world. You don't know much about that new world yet, but you can and will learn. Have faith in yourself.

IMO, every BS needs to teach themself that both D & R can be good, honorable outcomes leading to a good life. You may want to go one way right now, but both outcomes can be great - and sometimes you need to take time before deciding between them, even though some of us my press you to act now - 'ready, fire' instead of 'ready, aim, fire'.

If I stay with her, I want to be confident that she has broke off all contact with this man, and that I can go through my days without feeling the need to track her every move.

Gently, you need a lot more than that to R.

The guy isn't the problem; your W is.

To stay together, my reco is to require honesty - no more lies and answers to every question - as the 1st, most basic item.

IMO, to R, your W has to change herself from cheater to good partner. She needs to commit to doing that; otherwise, R won't work.

*****

IOW, the way to regain trust is to let your W earn it back, if she's willing to do the work. If she doesn't do the work, she won't earn trust back.

*****

My reco, because your W is denying a basic fact (slow and deep), is to consult a good D lawyer or 2 to find out your rights and duties and likely settlement, because D is best if your W continues lying, IMO.

Get tested for STI - they do that (for many STIs) if you give blood.

For sure inform OBS.

I don't recommend exposing the A unless you split and someone asks you why. Exposure may cut down your WS's options. You want her to choose R because she wants you. You do not want her to choose R because she feels cornered. R works best if both partner choose it freely.

*****

More recommendations:

I don't think you need to do much more detective work at this point. You know she betrayed you emotionally and probably betrayed you physically.

Your next step is to figure out what you want. Figure out if you want R. Figure out your requirements for R, if R is on the table for you.

Once you're figuring those things out, the difference between a PA and an EA may be significant. If it is, that's the time to consider a poly - but only if you'll R with an EA and D with a PA.

*****

I know this is a lot to consider. All you can do is go step by step - and you choose what steps to take and when you'll take take them.

*****

ETA: Your W is probably the same person now that she was before her weight loss. Her weight loss probably just got her in touch with a side that she kept hidden perhaps from you and possibly from herself. My W had a dark side that she talked about but that I could not comprehend. She met the wrong person, and her dark side became much stronger than it had been, and that enabled her A. It was always there; she just never knew how to tame it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:07 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

Wow our stories are very similar. I was 52, M 28 years, my W lost over 100 lbs became a body builder / Bikini competitor, my W started hanging out with new friends, coming home late and not answering while she was out.

She became a different person, very self centered and egotistical. I got suspicious, but dismissed my gut feeling. She started being more affectionate towards me and it felt like our M was improving.

When I confronted her about the A she was so sorry but nothing physical happened, "I don’t want to lose the M". It was only talking and meeting a couple times.

I don’t like making generalizations but there are common things WS’s do. If anything I just wrote resonates with you, buckle up there is far more to the story.

My WW was intoxicated by all the attention and validation. She stood at the top of of the slippery and it consumed her. She escalated from flirting to sexting to long distance EA’s to ONS to full PA. PA was what I caught, you need to take the previous advice given.

Do not tell her about SI, you need to dig into everything you can get your hands on. She is not going to disclose anything you don’t already know.

Trust is gone!!!

@ConcernedHusband87: The reason why informing your WW of the thread on this site is at best, useless, is two-fold:

1. She already knows what she is doing is wrong.

2. She is not on your side right now. She is right now being extremely selfish--doing the best she can to balance the excitement she is getting from her affair, with keeping the security she is getting from your marriage. What about YOU and your feelings? Sorry, Bub. She doesn't really care about your feelings so much, as long as you are sticking around.

So in light of the above, showing her this site will not wake her up. Instead what it will do is help tip your hand towards her.

What the others have said already.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:55 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

Wish I could quote some of you folks, not sure how.

Lots of awesome advice, and I already read https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/. What an accurate and awesome description of what I am feeling. I forwarded a redacted version to my wife to read.

She said she read it, and said she's grateful to have a chance to save our message, she loves me, blah blah blah.

My reply to her was to start being honest with me, as she continues to deny, I continue to construe everything that happened. And that her "that was about a deck" answer to the "slow and deep to start" was f%&king pathetic.

I also realized today that while his house is a mile away driving, is is only about 1000 feet from our backyard, and easily accessible by using the golf cart trail. Guess who went on a dog walk last night? Wonder where she walked to.

Which reminds me of her mentioning out of the blue before this all came out that we should take up golf. I asked why, she said because we live on a golf course. She said "we can hit balls on the course" whenever we want. Mind you, we've lived here for 11 years. So naturally I now assume that this was something they did during their fling.

Also thank you for all who told me not to share this site with her. The article mentioned in my previous post that I shared with her was perfect.

Tanner, wow yes our stories are quite similar, although my wife is far from a bikini model. It looks like you have reconciled with her? How long did it take, and how painful was it? How did/do you trust that she is no longer pursuing anybody, or is that something that will just never come back?

Wish I could quote some of you folks, not sure how.

Highlight and copy the text you want to quote then paste it in the post area. Highlight again then press the " button above the post area.

I second the timeline and polygraph suggestions. In order for her to start to regain trust you need to know what it is that you’re forgiving.

Duplicate Post

[This message edited by Tanner at 8:34 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

Tanner, wow yes our stories are quite similar, although my wife is far from a bikini model. laugh It looks like you have reconciled with her? How long did it take, and how painful was it? How did/do you trust that she is no longer pursuing anybody, or is that something that will just never come back?

It’s a hard long journey we are still traveling. My WW continued to lie and trickle truth (TT). I found SI and didn’t believe the advice I was given, but I knew my way wasn’t working. The more I read here I learned that she was following a predictable pattern. I did some digging and found more lies. I was pissed!!! This was genuine, anger don’t speak to me tell it the attorneys, anger. She came to me begging, offering anything for me to give her another chance. After a month of silence 3 months from Dday I laid a list of demands on the table, she fulfilled every one of them.

At 3 years out, I give my W a lot of the credit for the success of our R. I believe her when she tells me where she is going, or what she’s doing, but trust that’s still not in my vocabulary for her. I will always remember what she is capable of. I will always have an exit strategy. After infidelity your M will never be the same. It can be better in some ways but never the same.

I will always remember what she is capable of.

This is what concerns me, and I assume why most say that I need to know exactly what transpired.

On the other hand, can the truth be any worse than what I already have in my head as to what I suspect happened?

Based on what you posted you're still considering R, therefore I insist on the VAR now, the VAR and other investigative techniques could provide crucial unfiltered information to help you make a life altering decision that could potentially help you save precious time and money, now is the time to try to get the info you need, as others mentioned you need to know what it is you will be forgiving, but even if you eventually decide to D, at least you will know you made the right decision based on solid info, instead of wondering for years.

Remember cheaters lie and minimize, and many intend to take their secrets to the grave unless confronted with undeniable evidence, if you postpone investigating and later decide to do so, by that time it may be too late to get the proof you need, the A may be over then or in hiatus making it difficult for a VAR to pick up anything unless they confide with a friend/relative and text messages and other evidence will be harder to recover if even possible, also once you expose to OBS she may want you to share the evidence with them to confirm the A, after all you're just a stranger to her.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 8:47 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

On the other hand, can the truth be any worse than what I already have in my head as to what I suspect happened?

When it comes to infidelity "the sky is the limit", including but not limited to : orgies, swinging parties with AP, multiple APs during your time together (including mutual friends and relatives) and unprotected sex, secret abortions, online dating accounts on Tinder, Ashley Madison, etc., financial infidelity, etc., I'm not saying this your WW's case, but yes we've seen all of that before here on SI and other forums, that's why you need to know as much as possible to make a more informed decision, and typically the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to get the proof you need.

She said she read it, and said she's grateful to have a chance to save our message, she loves me, blah blah blah.

My reply to her was to start being honest with me, as she continues to deny, I continue to construe everything that happened. And that her "that was about a deck" answer to the "slow and deep to start" was f%&king pathetic.

This goes back to what was said earlier, about your WW having a two-track approach. She wants both, the excitement of her affair, while keeping the security of her marriage too!

Nothing really changed with you showing her that article.

I also realized today that while his house is a mile away driving, is is only about 1000 feet from our backyard, and easily accessible by using the golf cart trail. Guess who went on a dog walk last night? Wonder where she walked to.

Which reminds me of her mentioning out of the blue before this all came out that we should take up golf. I asked why, she said because we live on a golf course. She said "we can hit balls on the course" whenever we want. Mind you, we've lived here for 11 years. So naturally I now assume that this was something they did during their fling.

Oh, she wants to hit his "golf balls" alright, and for that matter, use his club too. She probably already has!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:21 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

On the other hand, can the truth be any worse than what I already have in my head as to what I suspect happened?

You have to get the truth. It like a big puzzle she has all the pieces and know the picture. You have a handful of pieces and not the picture. So your imagination fills in those blank spots and it usually worse than reality. She needs to lay it all out in a written timeline so you both start from the same place.

Don’t give her a pass on honesty, it’s the foundation of R. That’s why we are saying she isn’t R material right now. Also you cannot chase or drag her through R she has to hit rock bottom and get a dose of reality.

How do I handle the fact that she continues to deny everything that I have no evidence of? How many times do I continue to ask her for the truth? Do I need to go as far as serving her with divorce papers?

Knowing how she is, she will NEVER share the truth with me unless she is caught red handed, assuming she is not telling the truth, which I'm 99% of.

Are the voice recorders legal to use?

@OP

Look man, you have no trust in her, for good reasons. She is gaslighting you, obsuficating the truth and stringing you along.

Marriage REQUIRES trust and trustworthy behavior. Your wayward wife is not being trustworthy.

Most states are no fault divorce, that means it does not matter if she boned one guy or the US Navy when in port.

This is a not a legal case of undeniable proof required. She has at least, crossed a serious boundary in your marriage. It is up to her to explain and/or repair it.

You being hurt or having hurt feelings does not matter. She is probably in the affair/fantasy fog and you are her safety net.

Do the 180 on her, give her the conditions that are acceptable for you to not divorce her.

Enforce those. If you want to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. That is just the facts.

You can rug sweep it all, until you get an STD or she runs off with "fantasy man", or you can lay down the law.

[This message edited by BootsAndJeans64 at 10:06 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]