SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yappie,

I am struggling with my decision and my WS has said a few times how people reconcile, how it's normally the WS that is deciding whether to stay or not; not the BS.

Firstly, breathe. You do not have to force yourself to make a decision now. In fact, it may be a bit too soon to make definitive decisions as your emotions and mind are all over the place.

Once you have managed to get your wits about you, then your decisions will be better.

What worries me in the bold part of the quote above, is that it looks like your WW is manipulating you to stay. From what I read of that part, is that she is implying that she made the decision to stay with you instead of running off to her AP. This is obviously twisted (wayward thinking usually is twisted), making you think that you have 'won'. Just remember that you don't have to 'win' anything, it is the wayward that needs to put in the work to 'win back' the betrayed.

The real prize here is not the wayward. The real Prize is the betrayed, as the BS did not cause the chaos and stayed true to the relationship. The WS was the one that destroyed the relationship.

She has said she will do whatever it takes for this to work but I don't know if I want it.

What has she 'done' so far? Or is she waiting for you to tell her what to do? If she is waiting, then you don't have much to work with in terms of R. If the WS were committed to 'win' you back, she would be doing tons of research, and doing things to earn your trust back so the she has a chance at R.

I know I should do MC.

Gently now, this should not even be on your radar at this time. MC is only productive if both parties have sorted out their own issues. Attending MC now will just introduce the individuals issues and make MC even more convoluted.

One last thing. You seem to still be listening to what your WW is saying. Stop that as it is muddling your decision making abilities. Shut out what your WS is saying, and just watch the actions. She is trying to convince you to make a rushed decision that you are not ready to make yet.

Yappie, RocketRaccoon has provided golden advice. Read and heed.

I am struggling with my decision and my WS has said a few times how people reconcile, how it's normally the WS that is deciding whether to stay or not; not the BS.

That's not someone who understands just how damaging their betrayal was to their family.

We had a conversation whereby my decision of wanting to leave was spun around that I probably always wanted to and was just waiting for this excuse - which is 100% not true.
I am struggling with my own feelings that 2 months ago I was 'all in' and building for a future and now I'm not and prepared to walk away and start again. Even with our 3 year old in the mix.

Another not so good sign. Blameshifting. It allows her to discount her central role in destroying her happy family because you would have done it anyway. She's not coming across as someone you could successfully reconcile regardless of what you wanted.

Am I being a dick by wanting to now be on my own for the immyfuture? I don't know what the future holds... I really don't....but right now, I want to be on my own and that includes dating and being with other people.
Obviously my WS is not happy with that...I just think it's the right thing for me and will give me some perspective.

I don't see it as an end to ever reconciling but I also accept that going down this road might push my WS away but I just don't see how I can get through what I am going through otherwise.

The other paths open to me just all seem to involve unhappiness and I feel like I just need SOMETHING right now to make me feel good.

Dude,

If you want to be single again, get a divorce.

It’s normal to want to feel good when everything sucks.

In my opinion, you’re better off figuring out whether you want to divorce or reconcile before you start seeing other people. Seeing other people isn’t going to fix anything about your situation.

Even if you’re not ready to pull the trigger on divorce, if you’re determined to see other people, be honest about it and get your ducks in a row first. You owe it to yourself and your kid to separate the living situation and lay the groundwork for a full separation where you each have the freedom to see other people. Living with your wife and fence sitting while seeing other people is going to get really toxic, really fast. You’ll just be making a bigger mess to clean up, and putting your kid in the middle of it.

You're not being a dick. There are BS out there who have taken the route you're asking about. It's also the purpose of separation in general; to give you and your spouse clarity on whether or not you want to stay together. Kinda like stepping back to gain perspective. Whether or not it works going to depend on the belief system of both you and your WS.

What are you and your WS's beliefs on marital vows regarding sexual exclusivity? Is it ok to set them aside during separation?

What about beliefs on sex? Do you guys believe casual sex or hookup culture is ok? what about emotional relationship? Your wife emphasized or tried to emphasize that the affair was "purely sexual" this might indicate she'd have a better time tolerating you having just sex during separation rather than an emotional bond with another woman.

How remorseful is your WS? If they aren't really remorseful then this could backfire pretty hard. They could say that now you got to sleep around so we're even, we can just put it behind us and never talk about it again. They've already tried to spin around their affair as something you wanted as an excuse, this will get worse if you give her even more ways to spin this as your fault.

How grateful is your WS for a second chance? If they do feel that they've been given an enormous gift then on some emotional level they'll feel that it is proper to give a gift in return.

How much work on themselves has your WS done? If she's still emotionally fragile she might not be able to tolerate this now, as opposed to later.

If your belief system is amenable to this then it can definitely help your state of mind. Many BH's both here and elsewhere have talked about how much it helped stabilize their emotions, particularly the sense of emasculation. On the other hand the BH's who did this in contravention of their beliefs (such as religious beliefs) have said that this hurt them because of how they betrayed their morals. Another example would be if you believe that sex is a deeply special and emotional act that is only for committed partners.

Given that your WS refused to the leave the home when asked and has tried to spin things around on you, I think she'll probably consider this your way of declaring the end of the marriage. So prepare for that if you go this route. It is also possible that the idea of separation and you seeing others shocks your WW back to reality and then they pursue R in earnest, but this is less likely.

At this time, it's more important to take the time to heal. There are others that prey on people who are vulnerable, and you may end up in the situation you're in now. Plus, you're still married. I'm in the if you want to act single and date, then get D'd first. Do you really want to date somebody who is willing to date a married man? Date yourself first and get to liking you.

Thanks all, I got the answer that I expected (i.e no don't date) and what I wanted which is to give me some perspective.
Honestly just so depressed right now and cannot see a way forward.
It's not as easy to 'just decide if you want to divorce or reconcile' as many of you will know. I don't want to do it to my kid and the person who I have loved for 15 years. On the flip side I cannot ever see me being the same person as before the affair and I don't want to waste time and energy pursuing something just to ensure up in the same place a few years later.
I am fed up of treading water and being stuck in limbo. I am not short of things 'for me'; I have lots of hobbies and incredible friends.
What I want is for none of this to have happened and for somebody to love me for me and not have a fucking affair 😅
So I guess me saying about dating is because I am feeling incredibly low about myself and wanting to try and feel something and see what's out there. I know that can now be interpreted as seeing if the grass is greener or something - I don't see it like that though it's more about whether I want to stay and work at this marriage or if I will be happier on my own and all that entails. Also, I didn't choose this situation...it's one I have been put in and I am trying my best to exist in it

I’m so sorry you have such pain. I think most betrayeds here can fully understand how you feel. We’ve all been there.

Here’s the but……..

Another relationship can only provide so much. Yes the validation will be an ego boost. But short lived. Once it ends, you might be even more unhappy than you are now.

An emotionally hurt person brings an emotionally hurt person to a relationship. Not a good starting point IMO.

A shallow relationship is going to end up leaving you empty. If women are looking at you and express interest (yes some are that obvious) that should be enough. Until you decide you are moving on and D and you are ready to have a relationship with someone new.

A revenge affair is not going to give you what you think it will.

I truly understand your pain and the exhaustion of it all, and how completely draining it is to never feel good. And it’s incredibly unfair.

But in addition to what 1st Wife says, think about your kid. It’s completely unjust that you’re in this position, but you owe him the most stable environment you can give him from your side. Your wife has already introduced chaos and dysfunction and toxicity into his living space. Adding more complications into it is just more pain and mess for you and him both.

A BS is not mentally ready to after d day.
Flings are not healthy, do not help with the healing, and wind up using the FWB person.

Nothing wrong with separating after d day. Nothing wrong with not separating after d day.

It’s ok to process all that is, has happened and take six months to a year to decide what action to take.

No sex until std tests are taken to protect everyone’s health.

You say you want to "see what's out there," but that’s just the classic 'grass is greener' mindset, which usually just leads to more chaos.

15 years is a long time. You won’t find something better, you’ll just end up feeling more hurt and empty, and that’s only going to make things harder. Your IC will be giving you a steer on how to heal. Hope you find some peace.

Trust me, the love you have for your daughter, friends, and family will help you heal. And you can do that without diving into the single lifestyle. The RA or hook up will ruin any future should you wish to have it in a few months time.

You spoke about the the 3rd birthday ... sounds like you are a good dad. Focus on that and be patient. Has your WS agreed to move out? You need space. Even if it's just for a few days/nights a week.

[This message edited by Anotherdayfromhere at 3:54 PM, Monday, February 17th]

OP,

While I’m sure all would deny this, some recent posts could be construed as pushing for R. As many will confirm, while both R and D suck, there can be no doubt (oh, I’m sure someone will protest) that the D choice would in the vast majority of cases get you healed faster. Physical separation and going low or no contact from your betrayer accelerates healing. There is categorically NO SHAME in choosing D. So many betrayed consider adultery a deal-breaker and it’s sounding like you may be there. If that’s the case, start moving forward accordingly.

Here’s an option, tho some here will also boo my suggestion: demote her to girlfriend status, at least as a start. Tell her you need to see how she treats you in the D as to whether you will consider any kind of non-platonic co-parenting-only relationship after the D. After the D is complete, you can evaluate whether you’d like to try again in any sense. Goes without saying that if you EVER consider remarrying, you will execute the mother of all pre-nups beforehand.

There are women out there who won’t stab you in the back like yours did.

I'm with gr8ful on this one.
In my opinion, betrayal of the wedding vows means divorce, no exceptions.
Reconciliation can still occur after divorce. The divorce process can also be stopped if you determine that reconciliation is possible, prior to the divorce being final.
Once the divorce is final, you can date her and see if the relationship can be salvaged. If it can be salvaged then a new marriage can occur, free of infidelity.
How she behaves during the separation and divorce process will help you determine if she can be a safe partner again.
You both would need to be completely honest during this process and she needs to know how her actions can affect the possibility of reconciliation. Keep in mind, your actions can also affect the possibility of reconciliation.
Get the divorce process started, get some distance to clear your head and take some time to heal before bringing someone else into this.
If you decide to date during the process you should also be completely honest with your dates, to avoid causing an innocent person pain.

I don't think it's possible to R with a WS who believes they are the Victim in the M.

Like RocketRaccoon, I wouldn't spend an iota of energy on your WS's belief that she has the power in your M. You both have power. You can decide to dump her with your head held high.

You do not describe your WS as a good candidate for R. She may become one, but she doesn't seem to be one now.

I agree with RocketRaccoon. I'll add that I urge you to think in terms of your requirements for R. When you've got a good list, run it by SI. Absorb the responses. Present your requirements to your WS. If she agrees to meet them, you have a chance at R. If she doesn't, you'll know D is the best choice for you.

And as RR says, don't listen to her. I'll add: listen to yourself. You know yourself better than anyone else does.

*****

** Member to Member **

...there can be no doubt ... that the D choice would in the vast majority of cases get you healed faster.

I'm sorry. This statement cannot stand unconfronted.

First, we don't know much about what majorities do about infidelity. We have at best anecdotal evidence on how people respond to being betrayed. There are just too many reasonable doubts about statistical data on infidelity.

More important, who cares about the majority? Yappie is an individual, like every other BS, and each BS needs to find the right path for themself. What worked for other people may provide some guidance, but making a life decision because some imagined majority chose one path is too likely to be wrong for too many people.

Healing 'faster' often gives less than optimal results. Some aphorisms to keep in mind: 1) act in haste, repent at leisure, and 2) more haste, less speed.

It's hard enough not to make mistakes in recovering from being betrayed. The best way to prevent mistakes is, as usual, think before acting.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:17 PM, Tuesday, February 18th]

It sounds like you’re wrestling with a profoundly difficult situation, and the lack of space from your partner makes it even more challenging. Have you considered finding somewhere else to stay, even for a week? A month might be the ideal duration to help you gain clarity, though it can be hard to arrange practically.

I resonate with your experience deeply, as it mirrors my own worst nightmare: being in a relationship where someone has an affair and then begs for reconciliation while showing no substantial change. Reading about situations like yours makes me feel fortunate that my ex-partner chose to leave for her affair partner, rather than dragging things out.

You must feel incredibly conflicted. You still love her, yet she has hurt you profoundly. While it may be healthier to consider divorce, that decision becomes difficult when someone you love is pleading for you to stay.

If she truly cared for you, she would be supportive of your healing process, encouraging you to take the steps you need, whether that involves divorce or another path.

My main concern is that there’s a gossamer thin line between taking the necessary time to think through your next steps and falling into a state of inactivity that leads to rug-sweeping the situation. If this occurs, you risk moving forward without truly healing. Based on your description, it seems that this might be exactly what your wife desires. She could be hoping you'll simply "get over it" with no real consequences or changes to her behavior.

In the short term, separation may provide you with the clarity you need. The consensus among those who have been in similar situations suggests (and I went venture to guess that their instincts would generally lean pro-reconciliation) that in her current state, she is not ready for reconciliation. She appears to be blame-shifting any potential split on you for the choices she made and clearly lying whilst justifying her affair as an attempt to "spice up" your relationship.

Taking proactive steps is essential; it can give you a sense of control over your situation. It’s vital to create a plan for yourself during this tumultuous time.

When I faced betrayal, one of the strategies that helped me immensely was making lists. I wrote down what I wanted to achieve and focused my mind on those goals. This approach provided direction during a time when I felt lost.

Ultimately, prioritizing your own healing is paramount. Take the right amount of time you need to think things through, and don't hesitate to seek out the support that will help you navigate this difficult journey.

Yappie001

You have no obligation to reconcile and you can decide to divorce totally irrespective of what your wife has done or what she wants. It’s a right or option both of you have. For a marriage to work it needs both parties, for a divorce it’s enough that one wants it.

However...
I hate absolutes regarding human behavior and interactions. I am fairly certain that if we could query the tens of thousands of people that have registered on this site over the year we will find a few dozen, or even hundreds that did date others while in the limbo your marriage is in. Neither D nor R.
I’m also fairly certain that of those dozen/hundred you will find one or two that will confidently state that dating others while deciding if they want to D or R was beneficial. But I’m guessing the other 99 will confirm it only messed things up even more.

The main reason your marriage is where it is can be directly attributed to your wife crossing an expected boundary – fidelity. I have a hard time seeing how you crossing the same boundary would have any benefit for your marriage.

If you want to be free and to date other people... file. Do it the right way.

Regarding the comment about D effecting your child and you "don’t want to do that to your child".

My two cents is that a child DESERVES parents who love them, are happy and put them first. Please don’t think you can hide your misery and unhappiness for 4 or 8 or 15 years.

Second, you are NOT doing anything by asking for a D due to the affair. The cheater caused a situation that cannot be resolved and there is only one solution. Unfortunately the kids get some kind of fallout from it but there can be two adults who put aside their crap and work to co-parent as best they can.

Divorce does not have to be ugly.

Third, there is a chance you go out into the world and date for a few months, date around and decide to R. However your spouse MAY NOT be able to live with that and then decides to D because the marriage cannot be saved.

As others have stated, if you want to date, that is ok. Just be honest and tell your spouse the marriage is over and you have decided to D because you are not happy.

And then go forth and date away. You have been honest and forthcoming and acted with integrity.

I’m fine with a decision to divorce if that’s where your heart is headed, and I agree with 1stWife that a child deserves happy parents – something neither you nor your wife can be and offer if you don’t commit to reconciliation OR divorce.

And divorce definitely doesn’t have to be ugly. If both are realistic and understand what the process is about it can be a gentle process. I won’t say enjoyable – but doable with minimal pain.

But...
Speaking in general terms to avoid any direct religious reference: One of the most common religions used to have a workaround ensuring fidelity while allowing men their "fun". A man would declare a temporary marriage with the woman he wanted to have sex with (generally a sex-worker), do the deed, and then divorce her by repeating the divorce chant three times. That way the ten-minute romp was both "ethical" and legal. (I want to stress this is how it USED to be – I don’t think this workaround is practiced today).

I think that if you tell your wife you want a divorce and then do nothing about it, and THEN go date other people... you are simply cheating. You are becoming a wayward, just as surely as she is.

This can all change once you formally file.

Saying you want a divorce or asking her for a divorce is a bit like wanting to become fit or telling her you want to become fit. Simply stating it does nothing. It’s not until you start lifting the weights, jogging the miles and eating the broccoli that things happen.

If you want to date other people – do it the right way. File first. Don’t lower your standards and your morals to THAT level.