SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I had spent a lot of years in my marriage making myself the last priority until I had made myself feel invisible. It’s hard to feel cherished or appreciated when you feel unseen. What I didn’t understand at the time of my affair is you can’t be seen by others if you aren’t seen by or representing yourself

This definitely hits home in my situation. It was exacerbated that our daughters who always came first for her, were not even around anymore and the pride she had as their mom was no longer in play. I was self sufficient so she couldn’t put anyone first. It was a jarring experience and like you she felt invisible.

I have mixed feelings about that. I wish she had had the breakthrough before or with me, but that's not how it happened.

I can see where you would have mixed feelings. Where you ended up with worked out, it’s just the road to get there had to have sucked. I am the guy who cuts off their nose to spite their face. There was no way I was going to ever let anything good come out of the situation. Probably why you guys are still married and happy, and I’m divorced.

That brings us to the problem with "Babygirl". In the end, it's all about messaging, and in this movie, the message is that if you can ensure you don't get caught -- go for it girl!! YOLO after all!

It’s even worse. She did get caught and things were better because of that. As for the other books, don’t know them. Im all for empowerment for both genders, but empowerment shouldn’t be attained by destroying someone else.

Im all for empowerment for both genders, but empowerment shouldn’t be attained by destroying someone else.

Agree. And honestly advertising an affair as empowerment is a disservice not just to bs, but to ws. There is nothing empowering about having an affair. In fact it will knock you down and hold you down.

I don’t think people typically have an affair to have self discovery or empowerment. I don’t even think half the ws do any self discovery during or afterward.

I wanted to get back to this thread, but it’s hard for me to post during the work week.

Part of the reason this thread evoked an emotional response in me is that my husband’s AP ticks a lot of the boxes discussed here—a woman with a successful career, good family, nice husband, good life, great kids, but who likely had lost herself. When she and my husband caught feelings on a work trip they were both emotional wrecks in ways I have sympathy for. I have less sympathy for the way she spun the affair into an enlightenment/empowerment issue, and for the hypocrisy involved in completely disregarding my agency.

I don’t know if she’s done any kind of moral inventory or true self discovery since. She didn’t appear to be doing that in the first year+ after DDay, but she’s off the radar now, so who knows.

That’s not at the crux of my emotional response, though. What hit me hardest was the realization that my husband’s affair completely disrupted my own self discovery and path toward a full, healthy, mature long term partnership.

Like many women, I struggled to find or nurture myself in any meaningful way in the throes of raising kids, working, going through grad school, supporting my husband and his career, etc. In my late thirties, though, I started learning to do that. My husband and I grew in our relationship, becoming more honest, more nurturing and accepting of each other, more comfortable in our romantic and sexual partnership, etc. We were experiencing stressful circumstances outside our relationship at the time of his affair, but our general trend was that we were getting better with time. I was finding myself (slowly and imperfectly), and I was doing that in the context of our relationship.

Then his affair obliterated me.

Our self discovery has been so different in the wake. THAT’s what this thread brought up for me. My husband’s journey has not been easy, but it has given him a clarified vision of what he wants in our relationship and how to foster and pursue that. My discovery has been that of a person run over by a Mac truck, who finds that she can survive and heal. Coming up on five years I feel pretty healed overall. I feel proud of myself, and I like myself, and I’ve invested myself more deeply into things that match my values and interests. But that process of finding myself romantically and sexually in a true partnership with another human being? That was entirely derailed, and right now I’m trying to figure out what that looks like, because I don’t know.

That’s what was painful to me about this thread—feeling like people who have affairs can incorporate them into their sexual and romantic self discovery, while I had that form of self discovery set back to square one. Or square zero. I know that’s nowhere near a complete or accurate way of looking at it, but it was the feeling at the root of my emotional reaction. It’s a form of resentment I didn’t realize I had, and that I need to deal with to move forward.

I really appreciate your contributions to this thread, hiking out. Thank you again.

[This message edited by Grieving at 8:25 PM, Saturday, February 8th]

That makes a lot of sense and I have a lot of empathy in what you are saying.

My belief for you is your story is not over yet. It takes time to find equilibrium and heal. My guess, and maybe I am completely off base is there is much discovery yet ahead. I could not have articulated my feelings about this even a year ago. Most of the time spent in the forest is a struggle to survive while you find your way out. What comes after that mode may very well whisper secrets in your ear that does lead to a higher place.

I do not know this with absolute certainty but your self awareness and introspection thus far and the way you can express yourself means to me you are not blocked from your path. I appreciate you coming back and expressing what bothered you in the discussion and I do not see how you could feel any differently. I just think (hope) at some point you might.

But please keep in mind, I too see this senseless thing that I made happen in my own life as robbing me also of years of happiness and growth in a direction that could have been pleasant and productive. I wish I made my path to this knowledge different and would trade most anything for it. That loss for me is definitely there too. For me it alchemized in the acceptance of that loss.

This happens on different timelines for everyone, some may never reach it at all. I just think through reading your poignant expression of it, there is a very good chance that you will. Happiness lies ahead again for you, as does hindsight. I do not expect you will ever forget the affair or not have scars from it but I think there is a point where the satisfaction of where you are will outweigh it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:02 PM, Saturday, February 8th]

I don’t know if she’s done any kind of moral inventory or true self discovery since. She didn’t appear to be doing that in the first year+ after DDay, but she’s off the radar now, so who knows.

Do you think she suffered any long term consequences or was she like the protagonist in the movie where this was just a life learning lesson.

Sorry you had to go through this

I don’t know, WWTL. It’s weird; I used to care about that but I don’t care much anymore. She and my husband still work together, so she’s still in my orbit enough for me to know that the general outlines of her life remain the same—she’s still married, still has the same job. Her kids seem to be doing well, which I’m glad for. She was a complete basket case when my husband ended things, to the point that I told him to return one of her frantic, insane calls because I was afraid she would commit suicide and I didn’t want her motherless kids on my conscience. (Not the healthiest line of thinking, but those were crazy, confusing times and I didn’t have this place or a therapist, lol).

But she doesn’t strike me as a happy person, and I know she is not well liked in the workplace (we live in a small town and my husband’s workplace is one of the biggest employers, so I’m socially tied to many of his coworkers and teach many of their kids). She is a difficult and intense person in a lot of ways, and it doesn’t help that we live in the rural south and her general vibe doesn’t go over well at all (she is most definitely not from the rural south). I actually felt sorry for her when she first took a job at his workplace because I knew instantly she would struggle as an intense woman in a male dominated environment. I actually encouraged him to be nice to her. 🤦‍♀️

Anyway, I just don’t care as much about her having consequences anymore. I don’t think she’s a serial cheat or even a terrible person, just self absorbed and troubled and intense. Her hypocrisy is probably what has grated on me the most long term—she’s a self professed feminist who’s all about women’s agency and empowerment. Except when it came to me being pathologically lied to, which she was super committed to.

So yeah, all that to cycle back around to "I don’t know." I don't think about her very much, and when I do, I feel pretty neutral, which is probably healthy progress.

[This message edited by Grieving at 12:03 AM, Sunday, February 9th]

Holy hell. Stumbled on this thread and, suffice it to say, will not be watching "Babygirl".

I will say, Alan Ritchson plays a mean Jack Reacher!

All that aside, I assiduously avoid movies of this type. I, unfortunately, watched Unfaithful years ago and the only thing I got a thrill out of was when the husband bashed the APs head in with his WW's snow globe (NOT endorsing violence....but there was a vicarious feeling of revenge there I must admit). Since then, my wife and I (also an infidelity survivor) avoid these kinds of movies like the plague. Too much glorification/justification for what we understand is mass destruction of lives, marriages and families.

Nuf said.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 6:15 PM, Sunday, February 9th]

F* ck that sh!t !

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 8:01 PM, Sunday, February 9th]

That brings us to the problem with "Babygirl". In the end, it's all about messaging, and in this movie, the message is that if you can ensure you don't get caught -- go for it girl!! YOLO after a

More messages from Babygirl

What a truly awful movie..what a contemptible piece of gatbage!

I had the same reaction to the movie Beaches with Bette Midler.

Everyone raved about the "deep friendship" blah blah blah.

Basically Bette Midler’s character is a terrible friend, steals her BFF’s boyfriend and is very self centered.

I do not have friends like that. Never understood the "wow" of this movie.

I remember when the movie "Unfaithful" came out, I found it interesting that Richard Gere was cast as the BH, considering that most of his previous roles were as a romantic lead and he was named "Sexiest Man Alive" only a few years before. I wasn't sure how believable he would be in such a role but it really worked because you can tell that his marriage was very passionate... until she checked out on him. In particular, there's a painful scene when Gere tries to initiate sex with his wife but she rejects him because she, perversely, doesn't want to "cheat" on the OM (played by the smoking hot Olivier Martinez). When Gere finally confronts the OM toward the end of the film, his rage is heightened by the fact that he sees in the OM the younger, seductive man he used to be.

I haven't seen "Babygirl," but when I heard that Antonio Banderas was playing the duped husband, I thought that (similar to "Unfaithful) the goal was to subvert audience expectations. But based on the plot synopsis I read and the comments here, it seems like the filmmakers chose Banderas specifically to demean and emasculate a man who is typically thought of as hypermasculine, sexy, and heroic by having him cuckolded by a skinny twerp who looks and acts like a 12-year-old dipshit.

Am I the only one who thinks there must be some other reaction to infidelity that some
People feel? Perhaps they aren’t as affected or hurt by it? Given how many people are needed to write, create, and develop this movie there must have been many who have dealt with infidelity in some way and yet were able to work on the movie? I find that interesting.

I have thought the same, Othersideofhell.

Though I will say my life has been greatly effected by infidelity, yet I watch this stuff because I want to understand the depiction. For me, my experiences have created a curiousity about it. I assume most artists take their pain and create, the interpretation of it can still be subjective.

While I can’t say it was a great movie, I didn’t get what others here got from it. The person who was demeaned the most to me was Nicole Kidman. They didn’t make her face consequences, though there could have been many, but they did have her crawling in the floor drinking milk from a bowl like an animal. I also didn’t think Antonio’s character was emasculated. I felt he was a good guy getting betrayed. Not just about her affair but her lack of honesty in their entire marriage. I think it also demonstrated that it often has nothing to with looks, stature, social standing, or the ap being better than the bs in any way. What grown woman would want the guy she had an affair with versus Antonio banderes?

I felt like it explained how a lot of affairs happen with avoidant people who do not communicate their needs, and while I think the consequences should have been more demonstrated, they skipped to reconciliation which is not actually misrepresenting what many couples attempt to do.

The fluffiness of it is the problem.

The most realistic version of an affair ever performed in a show or movie to me was the one starring Jessica Chastain called "Scenes from a marriage" though it was very hard to watch. You want to smack her character at every turn.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:05 PM, Thursday, February 13th]

Hiking, I normally always agree with you, but in this instance I really don’t.

The person who was demeaned the most to me was Nicole Kidman.

I think she got everything she wanted in the end. Great sex with a young hot guy for months, sexual satisfaction for maybe the first time in her life, and a husband that not only didn’t hold the affair against her, but rather let himself be trained to perform like her AP. Sure she did some kinky things, but they were things she wanted and obviously enjoyed. Without a doubt the movie portrayed her as the heroine who triumphed over everyone.

I also didn’t think Antonio’s character was emasculated.

He not only has to live with his wife having wild sex with a guy half his age who he could never compete with, but this guy was brought around him and his kids during the affair effectively rubbing it in.

He has to live with knowing he never satisfied his wife for 20 years, and when he finally can it’s because she taught him her lovers moves.

Then the whole scene where he catches them in his house, and makes a pathetic attempt to fight him. When he has a panic attack it’s not only her that condescendingly try’s to comfort her, but him. That’s pretty much the definition of emasculation.

I think that more women would think he was strong for his blanket forgiveness, while most men after examining what he went through think schmuck!

I still see her as the big winner.

I could barely read WWTL's summary overview, let alone watch it. Zero chance.

I think that more women would think he was strong for his blanket forgiveness, while most men after examining what he went through think schmuck!

This!

I find this view to be extremely prevalent regarding men's view of other men who reconcile with cheating partners.

I saw a post by a moderator on R/AsOne AfterInfidelity that echoed this. It was roughly a long the lines of: the two most attacked members of their community were woman who strayed closely followed by men who forgive them.

Irrespective of the what the correct stance on the matter is, whether if in actuality it takes more strength to forgive and move forward together than burn bridges and move on (I'm not taking a stance at this time on this point) it would seem a lot of men's knee jerk reaction is: what a chump! Grow a backbone, get some self respect etc etc.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 9:21 AM, Friday, February 14th]

Waited, I can understand your viewpoint.

I think we just largely differ die to our prior roles in betrayal. Your lens would be different than mine and I think that is natural.

Watching Nicole Kidman do these things for me was like watching her humiliate herself. She is a grown ass woman who runs a company who should have all the validation in the world- successful, the finer things in life, handsome husband, she could have even had sexual fulfillment had she spoken to him about it. Instead she picks up a man who is young enough to be her son, who can’t even grow in all his facial hair, who has the body of a boy when compared to her very manly husband.

I see myself in that. I was running a company, from the outside I had it all, but no appreciation because deep down I thought it was fleeting because I didn’t deserve any of it. So I see her as a pathetic person, rather than empowered and that’s really due to my own lens of the affair experience.

Looking at her husband he is masculine and desirable even if she can’t appreciate it. Had he decided to dump her, he would have his pick of woman. I do not see him as emasculated, I see him as innocently betrayed. He is good all on his own and her view of him while would be painful does not define him to me.

As for your perspective, you know the feeling of being emasculated. You imagine the sex as somehow worthwhile, at least in the moment. I can understand and appreciate that perspective. As I said, entertainment and art are subjective, and it will resonate in different people different ways.

Where we do agree is having an affair is not a way to find empowerment. If we as a society act like it is, that is surely a sign of morality, marriage, and family circling the final drain. I do not know if it will inspire more affairs or not but I hope at least for some they can see she could have had way better sex with the person she was sharing her life with.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:21 PM, Friday, February 14th]

From my experience, I easily resonate with WWTL’s perspective. Hiking, it speaks to your incredible processing and communication skills that I can clearly see what you are saying as well. Thank you again, friend.

** Member to member **

Irrespective of the what the correct stance on the matter is, whether if in actuality it takes more strength to forgive and move forward together than burn bridges and move on (I'm not taking a stance at this time on this point)....

Hmmm ... when will you take a stance?

The best thing a BS - male or female - can do is to ignore value judgments - their own and everybody else's, too. Every BS - every person - has to lives their own life. Every BS has to use more strength than they ever dreamed of to heal from being betrayed. As Rick(y) Nelson sang, 'You see, ya can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself.'

I'm not about to call any BS strong or weak based on how they deal with being betrayed. And I think anyone who does make those judgments is doing a disservice to themself and others.

I am disturbed that anyone thinks they have the ability to judge the actions someone else takes to heal. From what I've read about the movie, my thoughts align with hiking's. IMO, NK's character made a lot of bad decisions. Her H reacted in a way that surprised me. I believe I would have responded differently, but I am not NK's movie H.

My gut tells me, however, that judging what other BSes do does not help a BS heal. Healing is internal; it requires looking inward and processing the pain out of one's body. Judging others is looking outward - the opposite of what BSes need to do.

JMO

******

As I've written elsewhere, I felt as if I'd been emasculated, but my parts still worked as well the day after d-day as they did on the day before. The fact that my parts worked demonstrated that the 'you've been emasculated' self-talk was a lie.

*****

NK is responsible for her own orgasm; her H isn't. I believe she would have been better off staying faithful without great sex than cheating with great sex, but that wasn't her character's choice.

My W & I have miscommunicated about sex (and everything else) from time to time. I feel terrible about some of the misunderstandings. We can't change the past, though. Perhaps like the character in the movie, we put the past aside and enjoyed what we can do in the present.