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I’m 40/F and two months-ish from d-day from my partner’s emotional affair. We’ve been together 5 years and were really happy before this happened. I’m devastated. Here’s a scramble of my thoughts and feelings right now:
-We just bought our first home together. The EA started a few weeks after we had our offer accepted on the house, and I discovered concrete evidence about 4 days after the sale completed (3-4 months later). I feel so angry he let me buy a house with him while lying to me. I feel like I’ve been defrauded and that the house now feels like a burden and a trap rather than the celebration and security it should have been.
-I found out about 36hrs before my birthday. I’m worried all future birthdays are going to be triggers.
-I’m pretty sure the EA was essentially one-sided. The other woman was single but didn’t seem interested in him in that way. He had a huge infatuation with her and spent those four months building an ever-closer friendship and working collaboration with her. He found her attractive before building those things. I’ve had crushes in the past and that side doesn’t bother me, they’re natural. But I’ve never tried to build closer relationships with my crushes out of respect for our relationship. He insists he wanted his crush to go away and to just be friends and collaborators with her and part of me believes him. But his actions just kept fuelling the crush; he kept chasing her time and attention and building an ever-stronger bond.
-All this time, he was distant and neglectful with me and checked out of our relationship but used being busy as an excuse. He was snippy, sensitive, defensive, absent minded. He wasn’t pulling his weight in our shared life. I kept telling him things like I feel bottom of your priorities, I feel like I might as well be single at the moment, I’m unhappy, I’m lonely, I miss you etc. He kept promising to do better but didn’t. We slipped more into parent-child dynamics too and I hated that, but I needed him to do his share of the house purchase paperwork and the only way seemed to be to nag/manage him, but that’s not who I want to be.
-He insists he really wanted to buy the house with me and even now doesn’t regret it. I regret it, in light of all this.
-I challenged him on his relationship to this woman about a month in and asked him if he was attracted to her and he lied to me. He gaslit me so many times. I listed all his female friends once and said I don’t understand why I feel so different about this one and why my stomach wrenches at the thought of you two spending time together. But he carried on insisting it was all innocent. I only got confirmation through reading his diary – something I would never normally do, but my gut feeling that something was up was so strong.
-I hate that he could lie to me so many times. I find it scary too. What else has he lied to me about?
-She was 14 years younger than me and that kills me. It feels so tacky for a middle-aged man to get infatuated with a 20-something. I know that’s judgemental of me, but I feel it really strongly. He was also in an informal mentoring role to her, so it feels like poor ethics too.
-He insists he would have never done anything physical with her and I mostly believe that in the short term, but if he’d carried on building their relationship while ours was crumbling and I was becoming more unhappy, I can see something more potentially happening between them in that context.
-He took three and a half weeks to agree to absolutely and finally cut contact with her after d-day. After me being utterly devastated. Crying all through my birthday and holiday. He fought to keep working with her (this was self-directed and unpaid work, so there were no ties to stop him dropping it, other than his emotional ones) and to keep her in his life. Said he needed time to let go, that it was too painful
-In five years together, I’ve never seen him cry. And yet when I told him he couldn’t have her and have me, he sobbed and wailed and howled. He said ‘I know I can rebuild what I have with you, but I’ll never be able to have what I had with her ever again’. It makes me sick thinking about that moment. He’s never been that emotional about me and it felt so overblown and ridiculous in a way, but still intensely painful. And the way he assumed it would be easy to rebuild our relationship too, makes me feel cheapened and unseen.
-I feel a lot of disgust. And then I feel bad about feeling disgusted at him.
-When I ask him how he could do all this, he keeps saying that he was taking me for granted, but it’s such an unsatisfying response. An understatement.
-He was planning to propose to me on our holiday and would have done had I not read his diary. I find that deeply confusing. I think it speaks to lack of integrity and levels of self denial about what was really going on.
-He gave me access to their whatsapp chat and it really wasn’t that deep. Even what he’d written in his journal about her didn’t really feel about her. It reads like a teenage crush, like limerence, like fantasy, like projection. Like wanting attention and to be noticed by someone he was putting on a pedestal.
-We are working on reconciliation, but I am spinning. I want our old relationship back but I know I can’t have it. I want the new relationship that we might be able to have if reconciliation goes well, but I know I can’t bank on it. The relationship we have right now is intensely painful and confusing.
-He’s really struggling to empathise with me and says really hurtful things without realising it. We’re in couples therapy and the therapist has told him he’s careless with words. When I explain why something hurts, he does get it, but he can never get there himself before saying it. So I feel like I’m constantly having to explain the impact of his behaviour and how he needs to correct it but again, that’s not what I want to be in a relationship.
-He’s now started individual counselling too but I have a feeling change will be slow.
-He’s always had slight traits of autism but it feels like they’ve been really amped up in the aftermath of all this. Not to say autism is an excuse or that any autistic person would do this. But I think his undiagnosed neurodivergence has played a role.
-I’m not sure I know who he is anymore. I’m sure he used to be more empathetic, but then I doubt myself. I do remember wishing he was more emotionally attuned to me, but it seemed a minor disappointment. Not like now where he clumsily hurts me all the time and seems oblivious to my feelings.
-I feel a bit dehumanised at times. And he becomes robotic when I’m upset. It’s so emotionally lonely.
-I’m confused because I really don’t think he intends to do it and yet I can’t grasp how he can’t understand the impact of all this on me.
-I feel a bit crazy. My emotions go all over the place. I’ve never felt rage like this. Sometimes he walks into a room and I start sobbing like a toddler. Sometimes I feel absolute hopelessness and helplessness. Depression, despair. Sometimes I find my strength and focus on myself and feel good and determined. And then I crash into grief again. I can’t keep up with myself.
-I have lots of abandonment and betrayal trauma from my upbringing so I know all my feelings are amplified by those experiences. In many ways this feels worse; I didn’t choose my family, and they didn’t choose me. But my partner and I chose each other. At least until he stopped choosing me for those four months. But I guess I feel responsible, like why didn’t I choose better. Why didn’t I choose someone who wouldn’t do this?
-He has done some good things in the last few weeks and is trying hard but he keeps slipping up and upsetting me too. I find it difficult to believe and trust the good and not just think it’s compliance cos he’s scared of losing me.
-I read somewhere that real love is being scared to hurt someone, not just scared to lose someone. And I know he’s scared to lose me, but it doesn’t feel like he’s scared to hurt me.
-I work in mental health and I can’t help but empathise and feel compassion and want to take care of him, and it would almost be easier if I didn’t have the skills and knowledge I have, cos then I could more easily stay in my perspective and feelings.
-I’ve felt so let down and unsupported by friends. One apologised to me for being a bad friend; recognised that she’d been feeling really triggered by my situation and had been avoiding me. Which was good of her to ‘fess up, and made me more confident that I’m not imagining it; I feel like people are scared to talk to me about my situation and are backing off and away. Which is really painful, like being abandoned by my support network in the aftermath of being abandoned by my partner.
-And people who are willing to talk to me about it a bit clearly don’t really get it, not the depths of the pain. The comparisons they make are ludicrous.
-I have a therapist who is amazing, and another professional colleague who has been amazing, but the time I can have with them is limited.
-I’m estranged from my own family and all I want is a nice and safe and loving family home to go to and to be looked after. But my family is too toxic so I feel really alone.
-I worry my family fucked me up too much and I don’t know how to make good decisions and pick good people and have good relationships. I know that’s a self-pitying place to go to though and not helpful.
-I’m really scared of being single right now. I loved dating 5-6 years ago, before this relationship. But I can’t imagine the same enthusiasm for it now. I hear too many bad stories. I reckon all the good guys must be taken. I guess I don’t trust my judgement on people after this too. I feel less confident in my body with the death of the body positivity movement, and after feeling snubbed for a 20-something. I feel more wary and judgemental of men. And also, the world is going to shit, the government are telling us to stock up on supplies. If I’m going to be holed up with only tinned food and bottled water while whateverthefuck we’re prepping for is going on outside, I’d rather be with someone than alone. I hate knowing that these things are impacting my decision whether to stay or go as I want my decision to be about me and him.
-I really liked our relationship before. It wasn’t perfect. I wished he could be more attuned and emotionally mature and prioritise me more. But no relationship is perfect and I was broadly happy. I was always scared to buy a house with someone but I wasn’t with him, when we got our offer accepted. It just all imploded after that.
-I would love for it to work out but I’m worried about his capacity to turn things around.
-I also struggle to feel confident that my feelings can change and that I can let myself trust him again. I feel so profoundly wounded. And I’ve been as wounded by things since d-day as before. This didn’t need to happen. How could he be so selfish and cruel and heartless and uncaring towards me? It’s not like it was a momentary slip; it was four months of bad and hurful choices.
-I really miss sex but I can’t even sleep in the same bed as him at the moment. We can snuggle on the sofa, but anything more intimate and I go into a fight/flight response and my body shuts down and locks up and fills with anger.
-I keep wanting to download dating apps and see what’s out there, or even have a hook up, but I know this would not help the situation in any way at all. The fantasy is part revenge, part self-esteem boost, part feeling more in control. But I know it wouldn’t help. But I question what it means that I keep thinking about it. Do I still love him?
-He’ll never not be the man who hurt me this much.
-What he actually did with the other woman isn’t really the hurt, their relationship seems mostly innocent in reality, just his feelings weren’t. But the lying to me and the neglecting me and prioritising someone else and just generally recklessly risking everything we’d built together. The disrespect. All the times I told him I was unhappy and he didn’t change his behaviour. All the times he gaslit me and let me feel crazy. It hurts so so much.
-It feels like sabotage. I’d just finished a professional qualification, we were buying a house, he was planning a proposal (I’ve never been that fussed about marriage but I would have said yes if not for this) – it was like life was all coming together. And then he blew it up. And I don’t know why. And he doesn’t know why. And now it’s like he’s frozen and confused and fumbling and sad and ashamed. But he did this to us.
-Can I ever respect him again?
-I know that at some point I’ll be okay, but when? I keep reading it takes 2-5 years to recover from affairs and that’s depressing. I’ve had a rough five years and everything was gearing up for life to calm down and be a little simpler and then this hit.
-I feel like I should have a question, but really I just feel a bit of a mess and want to feel less alone with that.

Welcome to the club that no one ever thought they would be a member of

He insists he wanted his crush to go away and to just be friends and collaborators with her - I'm going to call BS on that one as well as calling BS on him saying he never wanted anything physical with her. A WS will typically say that in hopes of placating the BS. When I confronted my wife she said "it would have never gone past what you read, there would have never been anything physical, it was just harmless flirting"

There is little doubt in my mind that once school was out for the summer and the school was down to a skeleton crew there would have been a time or multiple times when the two of them would have "accidentally" wound up in a vacant room. Hell, her AP moved on to the social worker at the school and they ended up having sex not only in his car but on her desk in her office in the school

My wife's AP was 9 years younger than her and 13 years younger than me, so I understand what it feels like to think you were being replaced with someone younger

You do have a couple of things to be thankful for though. You are not married and you do not have children. When a relationship has both of those the path to R is much more complicated. You bought a house but that is a material item that can easily be sold

So now it's up to you what happens with the relationship. Do you think he is willing to do everything and anything to try and repair the damage he has caused? Is he willing to spend years trying to fix this? On average it's two to three years to just process through the trauma of discovering infidelity and many years beyond that slowly trying to rebuild the trust. Do you want to invest all of this time?

A truly remorseful WS will drag his / her naked butt through miles of broken glass if it would help repair the damage caused. Do you think your boyfriend is that dedicated to repairing the relationship?

One reality I eventually accepted is that an affair is a possibility in every relationship from day one forward. They happen in relationships that are great, average, poor, happy, sad, Etc. No relationship is immune

Please do not try to repair the relationship, that's his responsibility, and he has to prove to you that he is willing to do anything to try and do so

You have found a great place for support and advice. Everybody here understands all too well what you are feeling

Wow! I don't know how you captured all that, but you sure made me remember what went on in MY mind when I was 4 months out.

That is to say: the horrible mix of thoughts and feelings you describe seem pretty normal for 4 months out. Which means you're on a path to healing that a lot of have trod. Not that it's easy. Not that it's pleasant in any way. Just ... you're taking steps toward healing.

A few of thoughts....

My reco is to focus on your healing, not on R. It looks like R is possible, but R is not necessary for your well-being. The house makes splitting messy, but you can always split if you decide to. You have a free choice.

You're probably in shock and unable to distinguish between reality-based and catastrophizing and polly-anna-ish thoughts and feelings right now. Have faith in yourself - your ability to recognize realism, over-optimism, and over-pessimism will return - never as fast as a BS wants it to, but it will return.

Healing, IMO, requires processing the thoughts and feelings about being betrayed out of one's body. The problem is that one often has to resolve old issues in order to get to the new ones. That slows healing down, but it can really add to your joy once you're through it. You mention abandonment. That was a big one for me. Once I resolved my fear of being abandoned, though, my life got much easier. You can do that, too.

Our Family of Origins (FOOs) always cause problems in life. Some people do get se effed up to heal themselves (think narcissists), but your post says that's not you. You are not too messed up to heal. You're probably less messed up than you think you are. Yeah, I don't know you, but I know a lot of people, and very, very few are beyond hope.

Being betrayed is traumatic. Be kind to yourself. If you feel awful, you're in touch with reality - but reality gets better as you heal.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:54 PM, Friday, November 6th]

You sure captured a lot of familiar feelings for me. I don't have a whole lot to add to what's already been said aside from that I don't see anything that makes you sound unreasonable or over the top about how you're feeling. Betrayal trauma is real trauma. For most of us it's the worst experience of our lives. So your discombobulation and confusion are pretty normal if there's anything that could be considered "normal" about this.

You mentioned feeling like you've lost your support system. Hang in there and keep posting here. We know what you're going through and we know just how bad this really, really sucks. Ask any questions youmhave or just use us to vent to if you need it.

I'm sorry you've found yourself here, but you will find support if you want it.

I’m so sorry that you’re here. You described a lot of the feelings that I have had/am still having post D-day. For reference, mine was only about a month ago (Oct. 1), and was an emotional affair - but not for lack of trying on my WH’s part.

Let me just say, you feel defrauded because you were defrauded. You were robbed of information you needed to make the next best decision for yourself.

I feel a bit (a lot) crazy, too. For me, part of it was that I had been voicing my concerns all summer to my WH while he assured me that everything was fine - but it wasn’t. Now, sorting through reality-based vs. catastrophic emotions is hard. My therapist and I are working on trusting myself again.

It’s very difficult to reconcile the reality of the person you’re with today with the illusion of the person you thought you were with. But you know the truth now, and even if it sucks (which is does), it is yours and you get to decide what to do with it - not you’re WP.

Please keep coming back here and venting. It’s helped me tremendously to know that i’m not alone in this and I want you to have that support, too.

Thank you for your replies everyone. I'm already feeling a little less alone in this.

I've just realised I put 4 months in my subject header but it's actually only 2 months since d-day. I'm not beating myself up for the error, but it does typify that my brain just isn't as sharp as it usually is. I don't feel as capable as normal; I'm making more little mistakes, being more physically clumsy, more forgetful. No sense of time. A friend once described grief as like walking through sludge and I feel like that at the moment.

It's 4 months since I started really thinking something was wrong though, so that tracks. Stayg0lden, the voicing your concerns all summer and being falsely reassured really resonates. That actually feels a bigger injury to me than his feelings for this other woman. It's so cruel and feels like it robs me of the ability to make choices based on real information. I feel kinda gross about all the sex I had with him over that time as well; like I was deceived into it. I wouldn't have consented if I'd known what was really going on. I know it's not quite the same, but it does bring up some feelings aligned with my experiences of sexual assault. There are also times where I now know I was using sexual adventure to try win his attention back almost, like I felt I was losing our connection and maybe that would spark it again, but also it didn't really feel that enjoyable because the connection wasn't there, and I feel really yuck about those times too, like I betrayed myself, but I wouldn't have done if he hadn't been lying to me.

WB1340 I have a hard time knowing whether it's BS about him not wanting the crush. It was something he'd written in his diary (which he never expected me to read) so that does make me a bit more inclined to believe it. But also I think there was so much compartmentalisation and denial and lying to himself that he might well have been bullshitting himself. He had never heard of an emotional affair until I described his behaviour as that after D-Day and he said he wished he'd known of the concept. He said that he knew he wouldn't do anything physical so didn't really realise he was doing anything that wrong. But I don't fully believe that cos if that was the case he wouldn't have had to lie to me. It feels like he was deeply confused but I don't know if that's almost one of his ways of trying to avoid accountability now. I keep feeling like he's suddenly become really stupid, and it feels horrible to call someone stupid, but what he says doesn't fit together or make sense. Maybe a part of me would prefer to call that stupidity rather than think of it as being deliberate.

Sisoon, I found your message really reassuring, thank you. I will take your reco to focus on my healing. I've started doing a life drawing class and it feels like an island of respite in all this; to get away, do something I enjoy, and be with people who don't really know me, or him. Like re-capturing some independence and my own identity. What you said about distinguishing realism from pessimism and optimism is reassuring too because I'm definitely struggling with that at the moment - helpful to have that way of describing what's going on there.

Pogre, thank you for your words too. This does feel the worst trauma I've experienced, and I have experienced a fair amount.

Something I'm feeling hugely strongly at the moment is a hatred for the city we live in. We were long distance the first year of our relationship and then I moved to where he lived. I moved both for him, but also for a MSc that I wanted to study somewhere more metropolitan. The course only finished around June, again around the same time as his EA started. It's taken up a lot of my time and attention these last four years so I don't feel I've been able to fully integrate in the city. I've always felt ambivalent about it; I'm a big hiker and nature lover and it's just not a very good place for getting access to beautiful green space. My partner is very rooted in the city but was losing his love for it, but his AP actually helped reinvigorate his connection to it. They spent a lot of time together in the city centre, which we've never really done much together, and now the city centre feels tarnished. I always asked if we could find more to do there and he didn't want to but he did with her. Now I feel like I was willing to sacrifice a more appropriate place to live to be with him, but he wasn't willing to stay faithful or sacrifice a woman he fancied for my sake. The city seems wrapped up in his affair and a trigger. I've been away for a week at a friend's and I'm really dreading going back, a sense of doom about it. I know where I'd love to live, another city near a big national park that would suit both. of us well, and he has actually said he'd consider moving there now, in the aftermath of this. But I don't know if he's really thought that through or is just being compliant. I feel an urgency to move but I know that's not practical but it feels hard to imagine recovering while living in a place that feels almost suffocatingly triggering and that's far from big nature, which I know is something that will best support my healing.

Something else I'm struggling with is really not wanting to see his family and feeling guilty for that. He has told them what's going on but none have reached out to me - I don't expect much, but just an acknowledgment and a 'sorry you two are having a difficult time' feels appropriate. I miss his little nephews though; I adore them. But It feels like it would be really overwhelming to spend time with any of his family, like I'm only really there as an appendage to him, and I don't feel truly like his significant other at the moment or he wouldn't have treated me the way he has done. He's really disappointed about that though and wants me to be at things with them. I worry it's gonna be difficult with Christmas coming up, though one of the good things he's done is say we can spend it away just the two of us, rather than with them. I don't want to snub his family but my discomfort at the thought of spending time with them is really visceral. I find socialising as a couple in any context really hard at the moment; I just feel like we're faking it almost, and I hate that. But I'm wary that if I avoid it, I'm isolating myself more.

[This message edited by ouchythishurts at 7:38 AM, Saturday, November 7th]

Your feelings are totally normal for where you are - a few months from Dday.

These holidays will be the hardest. You don’t want to socialize but maybe being alone just the two of you together will not be good for you either.

Your emotions and thoughts are all over the place. The only thing I can suggest is to go easy on yourself. Don’t be afraid to change your plans based on how you are feeling.

If you need to go outdoors — then do it. If you need to go to a more rural location or environment — then do it. Maybe you just need a day each week to escape from the city.

I can share that as soon as my last kid finished school, I sold that house ASAP. Every time I was in the kitchen that Dday feeling would come flooding back. Even though we had happily reconciled my subconscious knew a new environment was needed.

Listen to your inner self.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation and it sounds a bit like what happened in my life, buying a new place and only then discovering the infidelity, after I had pulled out a large amount of financing based on the value of my house to help pay for a bigger place for my new husband and I, as my old house was very small. The new place needed total renovation so he urged me to start remodeling it since I was in the construction business for years, and only after I had torn the building apart did I discover he had already cheated and lied about it to me for months.

I would hope you could resell the property immediately before doing something irreversible like I did. Because honestly this level of duplicity isn't going to be easy to accept or trust him going forward. It would be better to cancel this whole process now and start fresh where you want to live - on YOUR terms! I congratulate you for successfully completing a difficult professional certification and want to encourage you that your life does not need to be bogged down with the splitting and psycho-games of a Wayward. I have been there and am still entangled. Your BF sounds a lot like my WH.

Thank you both. I do feel more motivated to listen to my inner self now. My inner self knew something was up pretty early into his affair, but I trusted him over my gut. Will never make that mistake again! Or at least I hope I won't.

He put in double what I put in for our house deposit (he had a big inheritance) and he has said that if we separate, we can split the value of the property 50/50. He struggles to earn much money, so it feels quite a big thing for him to offer that. He says he fully intended the house to be ours when he put in that money, and that it'd be his mistakes that would lead to a separation, so it's the right thing for him to do, especially as I'm stressed about the investment and feeling tied by the house. So that's good of him. I'm not sure if I could accept more than my share, but having it as a possibility does take some of the pressure off.

I'm noticing that where I'm at now is a really strong feeling of not knowing who he is. I never thought he would lie and cheat like he did, so clearly I was blinded to that possibility in him before. Now he's trying to make amends, he's being super proactive and thoughtful, and that also feels like a version of him I'm not really familiar with. He's confused career-wise at the moment and needs to sort that out which will require him to change some of his ideas. And though he's said he'll move cities with me, he's very rooted here and has never lived anywhere else aside from for a few years at uni, so that would require a big mindset shift in him too. I feel like I'm in limbo until he actually gets to know himself better and then lets me know him better.

I'm also kinda pissed off with his new therapist... she's said what he did wasn't really that bad and not a proper affair and that she's concerned his guilt is disproportionate. That worries me! I know the importance of helping people work through shame and know it's their actions that have been wrong, not them as a person. But it sounds more like she's minimising things rather than doing that. I think lying to me and prioritising someone else over me and turning away from our relationship towards another person is 100% an emotional affair, even if the AP only saw it as a friendship.

That therapist is giving her tacit permission to do it again - or worse next time! Wow. Talk about losing the plot.

I'm afraid I've seen too many such "therapists" in my years here and in my own life that minimize to keep some hard truth out of their "therapeutic relationship." I suffered my own betrayal only a few years into my marriage due to such "therapy" at the end of our 4 dating years when my WH was given the impression his behavior was normal, even though my gut was telling me if he truly was committed to wanting me as his partner, we wouldn't have gone to see her to begin with. And I only wanted some clarity about his intentions after I'd chosen to stop dating him unless I got a clear signal he was sure. Well, he must have felt he was given a "pass" to ask me to marry him, which he did, but deep down he never truly gave himself to the marriage.

You are right to be wondering who this man is...it sounds like he himself doesn't really know. While it is noble of him to offer you a 50/50 division when you sell the house, in your situation I'd probably assume his intentions might not translate to his ultimate decision, yet I hope you will somehow be able to start fresh without this kind of cloud over your life no matter what the financial division works out to be. Because going through another betrayal later like I did is just not something you want to consider.

Lying and pursuing another woman secretly from your spouse is cheating.

Find another therapist. He may have minimized what actually happened so maybe that is why the therapist said it.

But no matter what, he had an emotional affair and it is BAD for the betrayed. Period.

He can recognise that his personal therapist doesn’t really get it and isn’t as good as our couples therapist (who is brilliant - very unshaming but totally holds him to account). But he says ‘maybe she can help me with other stuff’ about his IC. She does specialise in neurodivergence. But I don’t think it’s healthy to separate things out like that. I think he needs a therapist that truly understands betrayal trauma.

I feel like me trying to help him get the right therapist is just another way of me looking after him though and I’m feeling very missed and unseen still. Every time we discuss stuff, it always comes back to him and what a mess his life is and his shame. It’s tiresome. And just a repeat of the self absorption that allowed him to have an affair. But also, I can see how I contribute to it by asking him questions. But he doesn’t show the same curiosity about me and doesn’t really ask how I’m doing in any depth. I ask cos I wanna know him, but I want to be known by him too and it doesn’t feel like that happens.

In our early dating days, he showed that he could recognise difficult parts of himself and change them and I think that’s keeping me clinging on. But he’s struggling to do it now. So I’ve got memories of the potential, but I’m not seeing it happen quick enough. How long should I wait to see if he can turn things around? His understanding of everything feels so shallow at the moment, which means I don’t get met and understood and empathised with at all. And I’m feeling more drained from being in relationship with him at the moment. Though he does get it a bit more than he did a few weeks ago. I keep wondering about asking him to move out for a period of time, to his mum’s or brother’s or a friend, so he can make a bit more progress and stop upsetting me so much. But I worry if I do that I’ll just kinda switch off towards him and not want him back. Which feels telling. But also, we are only two months in and I know that is early days and it’s not wise to make any big decisions yet.

Argh! So tired of spinning so much.

[This message edited by ouchythishurts at 10:30 PM, Monday, November 9th]

If you want a little possible direction from someone who resisted ending a long-term yet mostly UNhappy marriage with a man who had a few neurodivergent traits before we ever married then soon afterward cheated with zero emotional involvement and when he eventually admitted some of what he had done, also admitted at that moment he'd had zero thought about the vows he had taken, understand you are dealing with someone with a baseline inability to feel your pain. If he seems to be trying harder just now, please know that is due to his realization that he may lose whatever security he found in you, but you cannot generalize from how he acts now to how he might act in the future, like you'd think one could when choosing a partner. For all we know the counselor chose to specialize in ND issues due to her own issues; that is pretty common in specialization.

A teacher of autistic children who divorced her autistic husband after he did the same thing mine did, explained the seeming contradiction: when they are personally motivated to achieve something, they surprise you with their abilities. But the key difference between the kind of normal intelligence people can acquire with experience that they generalize to new situations, versus neurodivergent people, is the neurodivergent brain is highly situation-specific. She explained that such individuals as she teaches every day can fail to generalize their acquired skills to new situations, even if they do seem highly specialized in achieving their particular "special interest." Other aspects of life, especially the emotional or empathic, go by the wayside for them. This was and still is my WH. It will never be the kind of balanced relationship I would have wanted even if we somehow muddle on. Because he often cannot perceive consequences someone else could. Yet he is brilliant in what he is good at.

(And when motivated, he will even surprise me. Our communications were so stilted and difficult that I asked him to take a semester-long college course in Public Speaking and Communications. He enrolled, the only adult student, and got an A for the course! How could that be, if the next week he completely forgot the class' first lesson: communication is a sender, a reciever and a message. He usually only perceives the sender part...but the teacher told me the class grading situation had motivated him to do better. It just didn't "come home with him.")

So just now it could be this fellow believes (again, after he hurt you!) that you are his special interest. But you cannot assume he will not go looking elsewhere when his needs predominate. And this is why the teacher told me she finally had to divorce her autistic husband - even with three autistic children (the neurodivergence seems to be a genetic trait). I know mine isn't a positive message. Just trying to help you sort it out. As they say, take what you need and leave the rest...

The feelings you describe have been well-documented in something called "the Cassandra Syndrome." It helped me see I wasn't over-reacting to "normal" relationship dynamics.

Thanks for sharing, this all resonates a lot. The highly situation specific thing in particular - I think it’s why I get so confused cos he appears to have the capacity in one domain and then not in another. About a month before all this came out, his brother’s family were coming over, with their four and one year old. I offered to cook us all lunch and while I was doing the food, an hour and a half before they were due to arrive, my partner said he was gonna go do some clothes shopping. He would never have made it back on time, or if he did, it would have been with just a few mins to spare. I felt we needed to prep the house and check for hazards for the kids and generally get ready. There was tension between us around it and he felt I was trying to control him and that cos I’d offered to do the food nothing was expected of him and why did I offer if I didn’t want to be responsible. Afterwards when we spoke about it and I explained feeling it was unfair for me to have all the pressure of hosting his family and there was more to think about than just the lunch, he understood and said ‘okay, so perhaps we have a rule that if we’re hosting my family I make sure I’m home for at least an hour before’. And I’m like great, yes, but why does that have to be a rule you put in place only after tension and hurt and stress for me. Where is the anticipation and consideration and responsibility ahead of time?

I’m left with a sense that this might be the future of our relationship… every little thing, that to most people would be common sense, has to be learned but only gets learned after I’ve been hurt or stressed in some way. And this affair is the same, he’s telling me he’s learned his lesson and knows what an emotional affair is now and would absolutely never do the same thing again. And I believe he wouldn’t do the exact same thing again, but I have no faith he wouldn’t devastate me in a slightly different way and then tell me again that he didn’t understand what he was doing and he’s so sorry and then look all ashamed and confused and beaten dog like.

And the only way I think I could feel safe in the relationship is if I’m hypervigilant and controlling and monitor him in a way that I don’t want to have to do. It’s too tiring. It’s not what I want. I want mutuality. Care. Consideration.

Then I think my childhood trauma comes into it… I just take for granted that people are kinda shit and will hurt me and I can empathise with them and see their struggles and why they do that and I feel a bit protective of them.

It’s also where my fear comes in… if I leave him, will I ever find someone who isn’t a bit shit and who won’t hurt me? Isn’t that just how relationships work? (When I left my ex and told my mum he was emotionally abusive, she laughed at me and told me all relationships are emotionally abusive. I don’t want to believe that but I’m starting to wonder if she’s right.)

My partner has always been really good at affection. I’m a massive affection junkie and he gives me all the hugs and kisses and squeezes and hand holding and petting that I need and I think that’s made me feel like I’m getting my emotional needs met when, now I really think about it, I don’t think I have been. But also, those affection needs are really important to me. It’s hard to imagine leaving those behind.

I also always seem drawn to ND people. Most of my friends are ND and I often feel I don’t really fully click with most NT people. Like there’s always a bit of a wall between us. My ND friends all think I’m ND. (I say I’m neurofluid cos although I recognise a lot of ND traits, I just don’t struggle in the same ways I see my ND friends struggle.) So I question if I’ll ever connect and be attracted to someone who can meet my emotional needs. I’ve been through quite a few different therapists and most of them struggled to meet my emotional needs - I’ve got an amazing one now, but if seven different therapists can’t make me feel emotionally met, what chance does anyone whose left over on the dating apps have?

And yes, I can see that’s catastrophising and not a great reason to stay in a relationship. I come back to whether, with enough therapy, my partner can become the person I need him to be. He says he really wants to. But how long do I wait to see. And do I actually believe he’s got it in him? I know I’ve grown a lot through therapy and have seen others do too. But… ?

(I’m also very cautious of boiling things down too much to ND/NT and painting all of each type with the same brush. It seems both highly relevant and overly reductive at the same time.)

I am reading your description and going "yes...yes...yes." Yes this WILL be the pattern. You are SEEING it but don't want to believe it is significant? And hearing such comments from your mother is NOT good information, either! My father was like that when I was dating in my 30's because he was bitter about my mother divorving him (for alcoholism) and likely a bit ND himself. He tried to sell me on the idea that "all men are assholes." His quote. I refused to accept that verdict about half the hunan race. Yet we are drawn to the familiar.

You understand about schemas and patterns. Here's the thing I have seen in my studies of psychology and counseling: much like it is said in jest that a surgeon believes almost any health problem can be cured with a scalpel, a mental health therapist often believes in the power of therapeutic intervention to the point there is no distance their mind won't go to say "but maybe IF...." (Ask me how I know!) So, more work for one party? Why sign up for that?

If you are a little ND too it could help explain what you said about your friends...that you don't click with NT people as well, OR perhaps it is a familiarity bias going on. But it also could be your history of abuse and trauma! I know how it gets to feeling with dating in mid-life. But listen to your own spirit more. That's the advice some of the sites that help partners of ND people recommend, because a long history of not being believed (hence the "Cassandra Syndrome," named after a mythological Greek tale) can set you up to feel like your needs don't really count.

Another angle is his upbringing. Is he projecting his Family template onto your relationship? Did Mummy spoil him? (Same here, by the way...)such that he is already drawn to you for your adult emotional skills? Just some food for thought.

Ah yes, to quote Maslow ‘If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail’. You’re right, I am doing precisely that.

The Cassandra thing is so apt. Like a month into his affair, I told him if he kept giving this new ‘friend’ all his care and attention instead of me that that wouldn’t be sustainable and would ruin our relationship. And did he listen?? No, he just checked in with her that he hadn’t made her feel uncomfortable and then carried on but hid it more from me.

His parents separated when he was 4. They were both very religious and met in church. His dad had severe mental health issues, was sectioned a few times, and needed support until he died a three years ago. His mum realised it was too much to cope with to stay married to him and to raise the two boys so divorced him. They were very amicable and respectful, and both represented all the better sides of religion; kindness and respect etc, rather than judgement and condemnation. His parents were never nasty about each other (unlike mine who also divorced when I was four and were horrific to each other). His were never abusive, but I think they both lacked emotional capacity themselves in ways. I think his mum has ND traits. Neither ever had a romantic relationship ever again; his mum tends to have very close friends instead, which is why I think my partner sometimes values friendships over our relationship. My ex didn’t have any friends, so my partner’s strong friendships were something I really liked about him when we started dating, but I didn’t expect to be so easily shoved aside for an exciting new friendship. I think he liked my capability; that I am reliable and caring and mature and can look after myself (and him).

I don’t think he’s a bad person. I think he is trying his best to fit into a world that doesn’t really fit him. And because of his struggles and limited capacity, he can’t have everything he wants: intense friendships and a romantic partner, a job he’s passionate about and one that pays the bills, a life of adventure and the security of living in one city all his life. He hasn’t reckoned with ‘you can’t have your cake and eat it’ and I think that’s why he’s so inconsistent and I keep getting hurt.

And here I am I keeping thinking endlessly about him. What do I want? To live somewhere with a good cultural scene but where I can easily get to big nature. And to have a partner who I trust and lean on sometimes and who can proactively care for me.

Everything you say makes sense. The inheritability of mental disorders is not well understood yet but his father sounded very severely afflicted. That had to affect him even if only environmentally.

And I can relate to your comparing his parents' divorce to your own parents' acrimonious one and thinking "this has to be better" since my mother divorced my father but when I met WH he bragged about the solidity of his parents' marriage. Which I later found out was more of an endurance contest with little expressed emotion and I suspect survived some sort of early infidelity - modelling for my WH that men can do what they please so long as they provide a home for the wife and kids.

And also similar to your situation, I think my WH's mother was a little ND in her intense talents but hurtful behaviors towards him as a little one. They just buried her yesterday at age 95 and he showed no emotion watching on the live feed from overseas, and refused to give any recollections to support the family narrative of "one big happy" which he was expected to do. Someone even brought up the story she had told me herself of ignoring her first child (my WH) because she was sewing, and realizing she needed to make room for the child. I couldn't believe they worked that image in to her "tribute."

During our fallout from his emotionless infidelity, he admitted that she had sexually abused him as a toddler and was super controlling all through his childhood, even insisting on being his dance partner at a community teenage dance when she may have felt her overweight son was too shy, she wanted him to dance, but I think it just served to label him as Momma's boy at that age (12?) When he married me at age 39, she was insanely jealous about the idea her son might....gasp....sleep with another woman!

So as you can imagine this kind of family legacy isn't likely to be rewritten easily. And your own legacy you admitted is full of sorrowful memories and the desire to get out of that pattern, I imagine. Yet we cannot run to the opposite end of the field as the preferred option (rebound effect): you mentioned your X had no friends, so this man's lack of boundaries around opposite sex friendships may have been minimized due to your desire to not pick another hostile man. Just speculating.